Warforged vs. Ironborn

[Tetsubo]

Speaking for myself, I have always had difficulty with the apparent default 3e philosophy that "everything mixes with human."

Even inasmuch as you accept that, it seems to me that natural lycanthropy is traditionally considered to be, by nature, all or nothing. I find the idea of half-lycanthropes almost nonsensical.

I agree that the "everything mixes with human" idea is rather annoying. I have a plan for a new campaign where-in there will be NO half-races. All the races were "ported" in from different planes over the history of the world. None of them evolved with each other so there is no racial mixing.

I don't see the shifters as half-lycanthropes so much as a race greatly in tune with its beastial nature. A race able to tap into its own genetic past so to speak.

 

[Desdichado]

Speaking for myself, I have always had difficulty with the apparent default 3e philosophy that "everything mixes with human."

Surely dopplegangers, if anyone, could, though. And since lycanthropes are merely cursed humans, of course they could too.

Even inasmuch as you accept that, it seems to me that natural lycanthropy is traditionally considered to be, by nature, all or nothing. I find the idea of half-lycanthropes almost nonsensical.

I don't know why lycanthropy has to be all or nothing. To me, a much more nonsensical idea is that of lycanthropy being "insert animal x." I mean, traditionally, at least in Western civilization, lycanthropy meant were[highlight]wolf[/highlight] only. If there are going to be more lycanthropes, I'd rather see shifters than weretortoises, or whatever else they have left to do still.

Traditionally lycanthropy was also a curse. I can totally imagine a bazillion scenarios in which a curse weakens over time, allowing for a family, clan, or even an entire race to turn up as shifters.

Anyway, it also seems your complaints aren't with "shifters and changelings are too Eberron" but rather with how they work in general. My original point was that those two races are as D&D as anything else in any monster manual style book, and fit will with the conventions of generic D&D.

 

[JoeGKushner]

But Ironborn is an ECL +0 race, and can be Large, Medium, Small. Isn't that a novel concept?

The game mechanic isn't a bad idea. I'd have to game test it some more to see how it actually plays out.

 

[drnuncheon]

The Warforged were made for battle, hence their name. But frankly they don't seem to be well suited to the task.

SKR said this, too, but I don't get it. As a certain Mr. Bonaparte once said, "An army travels on its stomach"

Trail rations
Drinkable water (or beer, or whatever)
Pack mules to carry it
Feed for the mules
Teamsters for the mule train
Guards for the mule train
Pay for the soldiers

...that's a lot of money you could save right there - plus the added convenience of not having to worry nearly so much about your supply lines being cut off. Worth more than orcs? Heck yeah.

Second, warforged don't sleep. Or get tired. That means that they can move a hell of a lot faster than normal troops, even at a walk - they've got three times as long to do it in! And if they hustle or run, well...

It's unclear if "immune to fatigue" means that you're immune to the subdual damage from forced marches and extra hustling, but it doesn't seem out of line. Even if you only let them march 8 hours a day, though, they're still going to be ready to fight 24/7 - no sneaking across the river to catch the Hessians asleep in their beds. No coming across them when they're not wearing their armor.

Third, add in the amount of problems that were caused for armies because of disease. The warforged, being immune to disease, won't have problems with camp sanitation. They won't all be sick of dysentary the night before the big battle. They won't die of an infected wound after the fight.

Fourth, the warforged exist solely for war. They don't have a family that they want to get back to. They don't have to be returned in time to till the fields or to harvest, so that your country has enough food to last through the winter.

And fifth, the warforged come 'out of the box' with a PC class level, as opposed to the warrior level that the orcs are going to have.

Now how much would you pay?

J

 

[Berandor]

The game mechanic isn't a bad idea. I'd have to game test it some more to see how it actually plays out.

Well, truth be told, I hadn't heard about the other book before. So for me the Ironborn are the first race in that vein that I like. No offense to the other author.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, truth be told, I hadn't heard about the other book before. So for me the Ironborn are the first race in that vein that I like. No offense to the other author.

It's not a problem!

It's just sometimes people see something and they're like, "Man, this is the FIRST time this has been done." To which I can usually point out several instances that it's been done before. For example, I believe that Fantasy Flight Games has a download for their Mythic Races that has a machine style humanoid in it.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Speaking for myself, I have always had difficulty with the apparent default 3e philosophy that "everything mixes with human."

Not everything. Most aberrations, oozes, plants, undead, animals and so on don't seem to qualify.

Now, if you want to see a campaing setting where truly everything can interbreed with humanity, try Exalted...

 

[Wombat]

I find both new races very odd and problematic for gaming.

I have read both of their write-ups and I am still having a difficult time with playing a manufactured item that thinks, acts, and even learns (gains levels) like a human. Heck, I'm not even comfortable with that notion in sci fi games.

Overall, I can't imagine running them in campaigns except as static (non-levelling) creatures.

Personal problem, I know. I'm in therapy for this...

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Surely dopplegangers, if anyone, could, though. And since lycanthropes are merely cursed humans, of course they could too.

I don't know why lycanthropy has to be all or nothing. To me, a much more nonsensical idea is that of lycanthropy being "insert animal x." I mean, traditionally, at least in Western civilization, lycanthropy meant were[highlight]wolf[/highlight] only. If there are going to be more lycanthropes, I'd rather see shifters than weretortoises, or whatever else they have left to do still.

Don't forget werebears or at the least the idea of men who can transform into bears is at least as big a part of western folklore as werewolves. Beserkers according to legned could turn themsleves into bears during battle.

But I completely agree with you about some of the were creatures they try and make are ridiculous.

 

[Stone Dog]

It's unclear if "immune to fatigue" means that you're immune to the subdual damage from forced marches and extra hustling, but it doesn't seem out of line.

As an aside, they are not immune to subdual damage. They also heal subdual damage just like anybody else though. This is all from the Faq on the Eberron boards. So a warforged will never get tired or sleepy, but if it pushes itself too hard for too long it WILL get hurt from the exertion.

Back to the thread, the Ironborn are kinda neat. The thing that makes me like them most is that they tend to go crazy if they aren't allowed to practice the skills of their class. They are pretty obsessive creatures and that makes them interesting to me.

Warforged are also kinda neat. They are the opposite of the Ironborn in that they are searching for their purpose and the Ironborn have their purpose ingrained into them. They were created for conflict and now that conflict is gone. They were property from the first day they were created and now are suddenly free (mostly). That makes them more interesting than Ironborn to me.

Also warforged are mass produced in the great creation forges that nobody fully understands. Legions of troops churned out with accidental souls by something that House Cannith reverse engineered from some artifact from Xen'Drik. That places an extra bit of mystery in them.

Warforged win for me.