Warforged vs. Ironborn

[drnuncheon]

As an aside, they are not immune to subdual damage. They also heal subdual damage just like anybody else though. This is all from the Faq on the Eberron boards. So a warforged will never get tired or sleepy, but if it pushes itself too hard for too long it WILL get hurt from the exertion.

Interesting. I would have thought that 'immune to fatigue' would cover subdual damage inflicted by fatigue, much as immunity to fire/cold would cover the subdual damage inflicted by extremes of temperature.

Otherwise, you have your fire giants constantly passing out in their volcano lairs, and your frost giants freezing to death. I see warforged passing out from a forced march the same way.

J

 

[Stone Dog]

They take the damage, but not the fatigue. That means they can still run and act normally without penalty. The saves ARE a bit easier due to the +2 Con that they get, so they are still more reliable on average than humans, but having a Con score means that they are still somewhere down the line they are creatures with a metabolism and eventually that metabolism has to give.

It IS kind of odd to wrap your brain about though. I have a vision of them marching along and some of them just stop moving after about 10 hours or so. No groaning or slowing, just all of a sudden stopped. Maybe sometimes somebody mentions "Hey LT? Some of us are starting to sieze up back here!" while still stomping along at the same pace that they have been all day. But then they heal for an hour or two (cooling down or whatever) and then it is right back on the march. While they cool down though they are not fatigued and there is nothing that says you have to actually rest to heal non lethal damage. They can still mill about, do repair work, maintain tools and other such tasks.

Oh, warforged are hardy indeed, but not paragons of robotic endurance.

 

[Henry]

Here's the question: how long would a warforged have to go without moving before they can march again?

In my campaign I ruled that immunity to fatigue also meant they wouldn't take the subdual damage, since they don't "overheat" or what have you, since they aren't machines, but essentially thinking golems.

 

[Hammerhead]

I like the Warforged, but I find that many of the immunities are extremely powerful.

As far as the Ironborn go, I don't like them. It essentially allows a player to perfectly create the perfect X: the perfect tank fighter, the perfect wizard, the perfect whatever. Too much customization.

 

[Henry]

As for the rest:

I haven't seen Ironborns yet, though I've thought about picking up Mike and Monte's new book for the combat styles and feats. The Warforged immunities don't bother me, since they have other weaknesses that people don't mention (lack of natural healing being one, dependency on the Craft Skill, and the half-healing from healing magic being another). They have no special vision, and make less-capable paladins, clerics, druids sorcerers, and bards. While immunity to disease, poison, energy drain, and drowning are powerful, they don't come up so often that the warforged stands head ans shoulders above the other PCs.

Oh, and ditto to Dr. Nuncheon's points. A Warforged army is still worth its money, even if an Ironborn army might be better.

 

[Berandor]

I like the Warforged, but I find that many of the immunities are extremely powerful.

As far as the Ironborn go, I don't like them. It essentially allows a player to perfectly create the perfect X: the perfect tank fighter, the perfect wizard, the perfect whatever. Too much customization.

Yeah, it's better he makes a half-orc barbarian, dwarven fighter, wild elven wizard or Aasimar paladin. I agree.

 

[Gez]

It IS kind of odd to wrap your brain about though.

Not that much. Take a bit of metal (not too thick, unless you're some sort of circus strongman). Twist it. Again, in the other way, now. And again. And again. And again. And again. And ag... Oh, it snapped!

Mechanical action (and by mechanical, I don't mean in a clockwork/engine way, but in the meaning that there is movement of parts) will wear down something and damage it. It'll get filed and heated by simple friction or twisting, no need to burn fuel for that. Constructs being kinda sorta magicallly alive are able to autorepair themselves and thus offset this wearing down. But they may need time for that. Time to "naturally" reforge snapped metal "veins", time to untwist twisted wood, time to regrow or re-solder damaged bits.

Warforged do have a sort of anatomy, even if it isn't one in the biological meaning, or even in the D&D meaning of "can-get-critted".

 

[Stone Dog]

Here's the question: how long would a warforged have to go without moving before they can march again?

In my campaign I ruled that immunity to fatigue also meant they wouldn't take the subdual damage, since they don't "overheat" or what have you, since they aren't machines, but essentially thinking golems.

They would have to go for as many hours as it takes for them to heal the non lethal damage back or until they are properly repaired.

I looked up forced marching in the PHB because all this made me curious again and I found something out that might help. Non lethal damage comes first under the rules and you get fatigued from that. So humans and other fleshy things get tired because they have strained their bodily systems. Warforged strain their bodily systems (again, the +1 fort save from Con helps), but never suffer fatigue.

 

[Henry]

Oh, well - kills the heroism of the warforged who ran all night in our campaign to warn a city of an attack, though. I had forgotten about the nonlethal damage being independent of the fatigue - thanks for the catch!

 

[Stone Dog]

Oh, well - kills the heroism of the warforged who ran all night in our campaign to warn a city of an attack, though. I had forgotten about the nonlethal damage being independent of the fatigue - thanks for the catch!

Hey, it was heroic for the original Marathon guy and it is heroic now. The only difference is that the warforged would be able to speak the warning clearly since it doesn't have to breathe.

"I say, I seem to be on the brink of death, but you really should know that there is a sizable army headed this way to destroy you. Oh, about one day to the east last I saw it and.... oh dear...." and the light went out in its eyes.