D&D 5E Warlock, Hex, and Short Rests: The Bag of Rats Problem

[Caliban]

I disagree that my comments were not relevant.

The question at hand is whether you can maintain concentration through a short rest on a Hex spell. My comments relate to other considerations outside the concentration and rest rules that should be considered when approaching the situation.

They are relevant only to your personal campaign. You may choose to run the Patrons as petty micromanaging bureaucrats rather than powerful extraplanar entities with more important things to worry about than whether or not one of their warlocks is "wasting" their powers killing a rat, but I don't see how it's relevant to the larger discussion.

Your Patrons seem to be more concerned about the actions of their warlocks than a Deity is about the actions of their Cleric. It strikes me as silly and very much not how warlocks operate (more of a business arrangement than a master/servant or god/worshiper relationship), but it's your game so have fun with it.

I just don't see how it is relevant to a discussion of the game mechanics, or even how other people may choose to run it in their campaign.

 

[jgsugden]

...

I just don't see how it is relevant to a discussion of the game mechanics, or even how other people may choose to run it in their campaign.

Again, the question at hand is whether you can maintain concentration through a short rest on a Hex spell. My comments relate to other considerations outside the concentration and rest rules that should be considered when approaching the situation. Your focus seems to be on an isolated angle. I'm pointing out there is a big picture to be considered.

As for how involved the Patrons are with their Warlocks: I think you described something very well there: It is a business arrangement. The warlock gave up something valuable to a powerful being in exchange for incredible power. Look at the real world. When someone signs over something valuable in exchange for something powerful, there is a *LOT* of attention to the details, limitations and restrictions. The Devil is in the details, as they say.

Regardless, if your game only focuses on the rules you want to discuss, fine. Other games do not, and for those people the discussion is relevant. Good day, sir. I said good day.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[abirdcall]

I think this passage from pg 186 of the PHB makes it clear how rests are supposed to work:

"Adventurers can take short rests in the midst of an adventuring day and a long rest to end the day."

You can't take a short rest at the beginning of the adventuring day. When it stops being the beginning and starts being the midst is, of course, a matter of circumstance. It is certainly not immediately after the long rest.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Lord Twig]

I honestly haven't read the previous 18 pages, but I will throw in how I would run this at my table.

By the RAW I think a Warlock can kill a small animal in the morning then take a short rest to get his spell slot back. I don't think this is a huge power boost and it wastes an hour of time in the morning. Odds are if you have the hour to waste you probably aren't going to spend all your spell slots anyway, and if time is pressing that hour might be worth more than the spell slot.

But here is where the Warlock would run into problems in my game. Where would he get the small animal to kill? A bag of rats is not going to be a bag of rats for very long. Either the rats are going to escape by eating through the bag, or they are going to kill each other leaving one or maybe two alive that the Warlock can still kill. Then he has a bag of dead rats.

And where is he keeping this bag? Which is now full of rat feces, urine, blood and rotting flesh? Where is he keeping his food?

Other problems: trying to use stealth and area attacks.

So yeah, no bag of rats in my game. But if they are out in the wild I might have a rabbit or squirrel nearby that they can murder. Or maybe a rat in a dungeon. So there will be times when the Warlock won't need a bag of rats. But there will be other days where I tell them there isn't a convenient cute little creature to murder.

 

[Caliban]

Regardless, if your game only focuses on the rules you want to discuss, fine. Other games do not, and for those people the discussion is relevant. Good day, sir. I said good day.

Eh, my main point is that this discussion wasn't about your game, my game, or any game in particular. But you decided post as if your personal RP of the Patrons was simply how it worked for everyone. You didn't say "this is how I would run it", just "this is how it works".

I found that objectionable, as I don't like people telling me how to run the NPC's and Power's in my game, and I let you know it.

I'd apologize for being a bit harsh, but that would be dishonest of me.

So, good day to you as well.

 

[Dausuul]

Without taking a side, the long duration isn't indicative of any intent to be maintained through a short rest. It's merely indicative it can be maintained for that time period. Short rests don't have to happen.

On the other hand, it's also not indicative that it can't be maintained through a short rest, either. The duration is quite mum about short rests.

It doesn't say anything explicitly, that's true. However, an adventuring day is expected to include a couple of short rests, which means a 24-hour duration is very likely to hit one within the first few hours. Since you get the slot back anyway, you're better off taking the rest in all but a tiny handful of scenarios. If rest interrupts concentration, the 24-hour duration is nearly useless.

A DM could reasonably rule either way, but I think "short rest doesn't break concentration" makes more sense.

 

[Caliban]

All that most of us can bring to the table is, um, our experience at our tables.

This is obvious even when the rule is clear. For example, if the question is about wands, and someone says, "We don't have recharging wands at our table," then that's still relevant.

Here, where there is a fairly lengthy question about the rules (RAW, RAI), it is also helpful to see how people would handle it at their table.

This wasn't an experience at his table though. It was "my patrons will micromanage the out of their warlocks because I want to run them as petty bureaucrats". It hasn't even happened, just something that might happen if one of his players ever tried it. How was this helpful?

 

[Sacrosanct]

So...19 pages later, the result is, "Just gonna run it how my table likes to run it.", so .....no problem then?