Warlock Patron: the Crone (please review!)

[MechaTarrasque]

Nice. It looks fun to play.

I had one more thought on the 1st level ability--evil eye: if the warlock is hit with a melee attack or a spell with range touch, the warlock can use his/her/its reaction to force the attacker to reroll with disadvantage. I thought about limiting this, but there are a bunch of other things competing for the warlock's reaction.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Good idea! Is the crone a former mortal, like the Undying patron from the Sword Coast guide? Or a supernatural entity, like the crone aspect of the threefold goddess?

Not sure...I actually almost named it "the Three Sisters", so that's definitely one of the concepts I was thinking of.

-Two first level abilities is unusual, but as you say the one is basically a "ribbon," so probably not a big deal.

-For jinx, why not say, "You add Hex as a bonus spell known," then continue as written?

I was trying to avoid granting either extra spell slots or extra spells known because those two limitations are part of the trade-off inherent in the class design. So giving a bonus spell known and making it better than the default seems very powerful for 1st level. I suppose it could be swapped with Black Magic, although at 1st level the only spell that could be used with Black Magic is Charm Person.

-Black Magic is good, though it seems weird that you couldn't also use it with an invocation (maybe except Eldritch Blast if that's your concern!).

I was trying to avoid direct damage attack spells. But I tweaked the language so that things like Chains or Carceri, or perhaps racial abilities, could also be used.

-Fetish is cool. I really like the idea of it being made to grant disadvantage, but in practice I don't see it coming up. You'd need a much bigger payoff that a chance to successfully cast one spell. How about make it like a voodoo doll; you take an action and grant disadvantage on one save, and can keep doing so until the fetish is taken away from you. You could still keep the RP element by requiring a piece of hair or cloth or something from the target to make it. Or maybe don't require it, but it gives you some edge, like you can only use it indefinitely if you have a memento.

How about:
- If you include hair, toenail clippings, etc. of the person using the fetish then the magic is only dispelled if both rolls fail (which for an Advantage fetish would be the case for any failure anyway.)
or
- A Disadvantage fetish loses it's power when a saving throw (of the applicable type) succeeds.

I think I like the first option for flavor.

-Cackle, great. Almost a bard type power.

Like I said, great idea.

Thanks!

 

[Guest 6801328]

Nice. It looks fun to play.

I had one more thought on the 1st level ability--evil eye: if the warlock is hit with a melee attack or a spell with range touch, the warlock can use his/her/its reaction to force the attacker to reroll with disadvantage. I thought about limiting this, but there are a bunch of other things competing for the warlock's reaction.

I thought about this exact thing (although limited to Cha mod times per short rest), and with the same name, but hesitated for three reasons:
"Evil Eye" is already used by Vistani in CoS
The mechanic is identical to Light Cleric's Warding Flare and I was trying to think of something new
Black Magic is "reaction to be attacked" mechanic

 

[Guest 6801328]

I came up with some solutions and made changes.

1) Incorporated the bit about hair or toenails into Fetish
2) Remembered that I had specifically chosen 1st level spells for their expanded list that would apply to Black Magic, so safely moved that to 1st level ability.
3) Rewrote Jinx so that it is a bonus spell, but only in this modified form. So if the Warlock also takes Hex it's identical to the previous version of the ability, but if not then at least they get this version. And since it is a bonus spell (and honestly I thought it was a little OP for 1st level) I moved it up to 6th.

Now I'm positively salivating to actually play this....

 

[Yunru]

Why not have Jinx simply be an improvement to Hex, rather than a clone of it?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Why not have Jinx simply be an improvement to Hex, rather than a clone of it?

Because one of my goals was to mitigate the over-reliance on Hex. If Jinx were an improvement then there would be even more incentive, not less, to make it one of the known spells.

In fact I think I should probably go the opposite direction and not even mention Hex. Just make it a good, non-damaging Concentration spell that doesn't count toward memorized spells. That would make Hex less attractive.

Does that make sense?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Also, Black Magic started off as a concept that the Warlock should be able to turn enemies into newts as a reaction. I toyed around with Polymorph, then started tinkering with a kind of "Lesser Polymorph", and then decided that really it could be any number of things besides turning them into newts. Charms, Holds, Curses, etc. For flavor, and to limit the utility a little bit, I wanted it to be non-damaging spells. So I ended up with "any spell that requires a Constitution or Will saving throw." But note that includes some spells, like Blight, that are direct damaging.

Some other options (in addition to "targets one creature") would be:
1) Any spell with a duration longer than 1 round.
2) Any spell that requires concentration
3) Any spell that doesn't cause direct damage
4) Any spell that requires a Wisdom saving throw

"Targets one creature and doesn't cause direct damage" is probably my favorite. Does that leave the door open to something I'm forgetting?

Thoughts?

 

[1Mac]

At 9th level the Warlock learns how to make small charms of good or bad luck. During a long rest the Warlock can make a charm that, when carried close to the body, confers Advantage or Disadvantage on one type of saving throw, specified by the Warlock. The fetish may be given to somebody else, but the Warlock may only make one such item at a time; if another is made the previous one loses its enchantment. The fetish also loses its magic the first time one of the applicable saving throws is failed. If material from the wearer's body (hair, nail clippings, blood, etc.) is used in the making of the fetish then both die rolls must fail for the magic to dissipate.

I'm trying to figure out what "one of the applicable saving throws" and "both die rolls" mean here. Did you mean to say the fetish works on two different saves?

 

[Guest 6801328]

I'm trying to figure out what "one of the applicable saving throws" and "both die rolls" mean here. Did you mean to say the fetish works on two different saves?

No, but thanks for the question because it means I have to work on the wording.

"one of the applicable saving throws" means "of the type you make the fetish." I.e., if you fail a Con saving throw with a Con fetish.

"both die rolls" is really only relevant for the Disadvantage type of fetish: it means the magic dissipates if you roll with Disadvantage and both d20's are below the target number. (An Advantage fetish, of course, only fails the roll if that's true so the wording is redundant.)

Maybe I should make the Disadvantage one lose its magic if the wearer succeeds on a saving throw?

I'll tweak the language now.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Tweaked. And changed the rule slightly so that the fetish only loses its dweomer on failure if no body material is included. I figure that will still be a relatively tough criterion to meet for being used offensively, and when used defensively it was maybe too weak the old way. Now when the warlock uses it him/herself it's basically permanent.

I also changed Black Magic to only use Wisdom saving throw spells.

Next question: should Cackle be a bonus action instead of a full action so that the Witch can benefit from her own Cackle (in terms of reduced saving throws)?