Warlocks Damaging Themselves? Possible? (Temporary HP Discussion Too!)

[Satori]

This is a really, REALLY silly question...but I had to ask.

The Infernal Pact Warlock has (98 x10^76) ways to gain Temporary HP...which, since they don't stack, means this type of Warlock expects to take a lot of damage and continually replenish their "Fake HP" storage.

Several Warlock Powers (including the At Will "Hellish Rebuke") damage the opponent if the Warlock takes damage.

Now, this is my problem:

1. Warlocks are Medium/Long Ranged Strikers with a lot of Mobility. Why are they given powers designed to function at peak capacity when the Warlock takes damage?
-i.e. A good Warlock will NEVER be within striking distance!

2. Temporary HP don't stack...so an Infernal Pact Warlock cannot just amass huge amounts of Temp HP through using their powers. Those Temp HP must serve a purpose, or else they're wasted.

3. Lots of Warlock Powers give benefits if the Warlock takes damage...which makes sense combined with their Temp HP stores but does NOT make sense with their Medium/Long Range role.

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Here is my question:

-Is it possible for a Warlock, armed with a Dagger, to damage themselves ala "Blood Magus" in order to enhance/activate their powers?

-If so, what kind of action would it be to inflict 1 point of damage on yourself?

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Unfortunately, this is the ONLY way I can make sense of the Infernal Pact Warlock, as I'm having a tough time making the Parts = Sum.

 

[cdrcjsn]

I would rule that attacking any creature, even yourself, would take a standard action unless there's another power involved (i.e. blood mage paragon ability).

But I think you're mistaken when you think that Warlocks are long/medium ranged strikers. The most effective lock I've seen in play are short/medium ranged strikers.

Infernal Lock - High Con/ High Int / dump Cha (you don't need it) - these can basically act as secondary tanks. Decent AC/Defenses and can be a damage soak with plenty of ways to get temp hps.

Tactics include:
1) Getting AC almost as high as the party defender thanks to concealment (Shadow Walk), armor/shield feats, high Intelligence, rod of dark reward (+1 to AC for one round when you land a curse)
2) Purposely triggering an OA attack past an opponent to trigger hellish rebuke. Double points if the target is currently under a Paladin Divine Challenge.
3) Prime Shot only works if there's no other ally closer to the target than you.
4) At low-mid heroic, you have lots of options for teleports or damage reduction utilities, so you should NOT be afraid to be up close and personal.

 

[Dark080matter]

I second the comment about Warlocks being closer ranged than you seem to think. In addition to the comments about Prime Shot (and laying down a Curse requiring you to closest to the target you actually want), the powers also say a lot about the play style.

In general, a Fey Pact Warlock would much rather be at a decent (5-10 square) distance from his target if he can help it, while Infernal wants to be much closer, possibly blasting targets at 1 or 2 squares distant.

I recently rolled up a scythe-wielding 1st level Infernal (Half-Elf) Warlock.. took the powers Vampiric Grasp and Armor of Agathys as well as the Fighter's Reaping Strike from the Half-Elf racial bonus. With a Constitution of 18 he starts with a couple more HP than the Dwarf Fighter in my group. My 1st level feat is Chainmail Proficiency... 2nd level will be Student of the Sword. Guess where he's gonna be in combat


With all that said an Infernal Warlock with Arcane Initiate and taking Blood Mage for his Paragon Path would be pretty darn cool.

 

[CrimsonNeko]

I second the short to medium range thing. I am playing a lock in my friend's campaign. First thing I found out is that, if I want to curse more than one guy, I want to be close enough to quickly change which enemy is counted as closest to me. Also, I'm a star pact lock, so I want to be close enough the enemy might move towards me, but not so close they can reach me in one turn hopefully, so I can make full use of my at-will power.

 

[amusingsn]

I second the comment about Warlocks being closer ranged than you seem to think. In addition to the comments about Prime Shot (and laying down a Curse requiring you to closest to the target you actually want), the powers also say a lot about the play style.

In general, a Fey Pact Warlock would much rather be at a decent (5-10 square) distance from his target if he can help it, while Infernal wants to be much closer, possibly blasting targets at 1 or 2 squares distant.

I recently rolled up a scythe-wielding 1st level Infernal (Half-Elf) Warlock.. took the powers Vampiric Grasp and Armor of Agathys as well as the Fighter's Reaping Strike from the Half-Elf racial bonus. With a Constitution of 18 he starts with a couple more HP than the Dwarf Fighter in my group. My 1st level feat is Chainmail Proficiency... 2nd level will be Student of the Sword. Guess where he's gonna be in combat


With all that said an Infernal Warlock with Arcane Initiate and taking Blood Mage for his Paragon Path would be pretty darn cool.

Infernal Warlocks are definitely best off in the thick of things, skirmishing with the enemy. Good constitution, concealment if you keep moving around, the ability to curse multiple enemies as long as you circle around the melee, and Hellish Rebuke to make the enemies pay double (nearly so) for their insolence of Opportunity Attacks -- it adds up to an odd synergy for using your ranged powers while bouncing in and out of melee. It's everything, in my opinion, that a striker should be. I'm really impressed with the 4th Edition designers ability to create three distinct Striker classes who benefit from operating similarly (mobile, single target damage dealers), but who are significantly mechanically different.

On the multiclass point, I definitely noticed the whole Infernal/Blood Mage synergy also -- a perfect way to assure you damage yourself, and horribly injure your enemies in the resulting bloody conflagration. Ranger multiclass dip for the (overpowered) Hunter's Quarry and training in Stealth is also a pretty obvious (alternate) direction to take. A more serious commitment to Rogue for advanced sneaky-movement will also be popular, I imagine -- especially for Fae Pact warlocks.

 

[Satori]

Wow, thanks for the advice! I'll have to shift around some powers/feats to get my Warlock into the thick of combat.

I had wanted to take the PC in that direction anyway, so this is good.

I'll do some forum searching for Infernal Warlock tactics, but in the meantime would you guys offer some of your experience on this?

I like the idea of getting a HUGE AC, beefing up with Temp HP, getting concealment, and using melee centered abilities like Armor of Agathys to create a unique "Gish" style "Melee Lock". I'll have to rebuild the character's stats and drop Charisma while jacking up Con, Int, and Str (minimal for heavy armor/weaponry).

I'll have to try activating Armor of Agathys, dropping a curse, shooting Hellish Rebuke, THEN walking right next to the goon. When its action starts, he'll take Cold damage, then Fire damage again after he attacks me. When he runs out of Temp HP from AoA, out comes the Vampiric Embrace.

Wow...and I thought I'd have to remake him with a different pact.

Thanks guys!

 

[Nifft]

If you like melee infernal warlocks, you may enjoy the Hexhammer Gish.

Cheers, -- N

 

[WOLead]

I like the idea of getting a HUGE AC, beefing up with Temp HP, getting concealment, and using melee centered abilities like Armor of Agathys to create a unique "Gish" style "Melee Lock". I'll have to rebuild the character's stats and drop Charisma while jacking up Con, Int, and Str (minimal for heavy armor/weaponry).

I'll have to try activating Armor of Agathys, dropping a curse, shooting Hellish Rebuke, THEN walking right next to the goon. When its action starts, he'll take Cold damage, then Fire damage again after he attacks me. When he runs out of Temp HP from AoA, out comes the Vampiric Embrace.

Well shoot, with that style of attack I'm tempted to switch to Infernal. It would even keep a combo attack that can be counted as simply cruel against one opponent. Sadly it has to wait until you hit level 10, and can only be used against one opponent a day.

At level 9, take Summons of Khirad as the Daily and at level 10 take Shadow Form as the Utility. Summons of Khirad is 2d10 damage using Con vs. Will, which is weaker damage wise then the Iron Spike of Dis 3d10 Con vs. Ref. What follows the damage is worth the minor 1d10 damage loss.

Choose one tough non-flying target. On your turn, open with Summons of Khirad and teleport him nearby, then with your minor action use Shadow Form, and end the turn after you move 6 squares straight up. On your next turn, fly as high as you can while keeping the target in range 10. Then use the Sustain Minor action from Summons of Khirad to teleport the target 3 squares above and a square over yourself. Since diagnols only count as 1 square, you can drop a monster from a height of 14 squares, or 70 feet. Something falling from 70 feet takes 7d10 damage. Which you can keep up constantly until you miss as you fly above insubstantial, because while Shadow Form does take away your Standard Action, it doesn't take away your minor action to Sustain Minor the Teleport effect from Summons of Khirad.

7d10 damage per turn against one non-flying target until you miss with a Con vs. Will. How can an Infernal Warlock not like the sounds of a screaming soul falling past and smacking into the ground prone, repeatedly at that?

Since the level 9 Daily and level 10 Utility don't have anything to do with armor or temporary HP, it could be a useful alternative to M/Cing those skills out for melee.

Edit: Actually, that may only be 6d10 damage as I think the actual fall distance is only 65 feet. Oops.