Warmage Modification

[Votan]

I was thinking of modifying the Warmage. I was thinking about removing Advanced Learning as a class ability. Instead, I was thinking about letting the warmage choose one school of magic from the Sorcerer/Wizard list. They would have access to all spells on that school's list.

Balancing this might require making these spells one level higher.

So, for example, a Warmage who took conjuration as his school would get Mount at 2nd level, Melf's Acid Arrow at 3rd level and Teleport as a 6th level spell. He'd never see a 9th level spell removing certain problem spells from consideration.

Would this be balanced?

 

[Graf]

No. Its not balanced.
The question you want to ask yourself is is-this-much-better-than-the-origional-class.

Look at the PHBII for something that gives you some of what you're looking for (i.e. the ability to select spells warmages don't get without using feats)

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Warmage is suppose to be just about blasting stuff. If you want to be more than just blasting stuff play a sorcerer.
Giving the warmage a whole other school of magic is unbalanceble.

 

[Votan]

Warmage is suppose to be just about blasting stuff. If you want to be more than just blasting stuff play a sorcerer.
Giving the warmage a whole other school of magic is unbalanceble.

Even with the higher levels for individual spells?

My original thought for this came from Arcane Disciple which was an interesting way to expand the warmage except that it runs off of wisdom which is hard to poit ability points into with a 25 point buy/elite array character.

It's true that this would be good but might it make the warmage better able to fill the arcane problem solver spot in the party?

I liked ecletic learning in PHB2 but it strikes me as being a nice taste without really giving the warmage the ability to solve non-combar problems with spells. Right now I am thinking that the warmage plays much more like an archer than a mage. But I like, especially for newer players, the idea of an open list (so does WotC since they since came up with the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer -- both of which are much better than a warmage).

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I don't know anything about Beguilers and Dread Necros but if they're much BETTER than a warmage, then you should be hearing alarm bells going off in your head. *WARNING WARNING munchkin junk approaching WARNING WARNING* Any player option that can be described as blatantly better than another should be promptly deposited in the circular file along with all your other trash. If you want a spellcaster with versatility, you shouldn't be playing a warmage. Try a wizard; the original and ultimate in arcane versatility!

 

[Deper]

But I like, especially for newer players, the idea of an open list (so does WotC since they since came up with the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer -- both of which are much better than a warmage).

It would be nice if the warmage could solve non-combat situations with spells. That class exists. It is called the sorcerer. A warmage is supposed to be artilary, and that is what he is.

Beguilers and Dread Necromancers are not "better" than the warmage. All three fill different jobs. Neither the Beguiler or the Dread Necromancer can hope to match the warmage in terms of sheer damage potential. I have a 6th level warmage in my party who regularly throws out 16 points of damage on a magic missle, and that's if he isn't rolling very well. The warmage is the ultimate blaster, and never claims to be anything else. The Dread Necromancer is a lord of the dead. He has a bunch of touch attacks, but that requires him to get close or use up a lot of spells on spectral hand. But when it comes to undead he's the king. Finally, the beguiler is an infiltrator. In and out, never leaving a trace they were there. But their damage potential is so far in the toilet it isn't funny.

So how, exactly, is the warmage worse than the other two themed casters? Because he isn't very flexible beyond blasting? The others are pigeon holed too. Take the PHBII option if you want a spell to help outside of combat. If you really need a better selection, take the sorcerer, or if you are even remotely capable of planning ahead take the wizard. But don't claim that the warmage is one of the weaker classes when compared to the other themed casters. It just doesn't fit.

 

[Votan]

It would be nice if the warmage could solve non-combat situations with spells. That class exists. It is called the sorcerer. A warmage is supposed to be artilary, and that is what he is.

Beguilers and Dread Necromancers are not "better" than the warmage. All three fill different jobs. Neither the Beguiler or the Dread Necromancer can hope to match the warmage in terms of sheer damage potential. I have a 6th level warmage in my party who regularly throws out 16 points of damage on a magic missle, and that's if he isn't rolling very well. The warmage is the ultimate blaster, and never claims to be anything else. The Dread Necromancer is a lord of the dead. He has a bunch of touch attacks, but that requires him to get close or use up a lot of spells on spectral hand. But when it comes to undead he's the king. Finally, the beguiler is an infiltrator. In and out, never leaving a trace they were there. But their damage potential is so far in the toilet it isn't funny.

So how, exactly, is the warmage worse than the other two themed casters? Because he isn't very flexible beyond blasting? The others are pigeon holed too. Take the PHBII option if you want a spell to help outside of combat. If you really need a better selection, take the sorcerer, or if you are even remotely capable of planning ahead take the wizard. But don't claim that the warmage is one of the weaker classes when compared to the other themed casters. It just doesn't fit.

The Beguiler is a full caster with 6 skill points per level, INT as a casting stat and trapfinding. It's potential overpowered issues come from stomping on the rogue so we'll put that aside for the moment.

The Dread Necromancer just toughens up at the end. You are adding:

DR 8
Undead Traits (including d12 hit die) for no cost!!!!
A number of nice bonus class features like negetative energy busrt
One of the nastiest attack spells in the game (Mass Harm doing 20d12 damage -- exactly what does a warmage have that competes with that)
And all sorts of necromancy spells.

It is true that, at low levels, the warmage is better. But what other class gets a LA +4 template as a free class feature??? Seriously???

 

[Staffan]

Dragon Disciple? Oh wait, that's only a LA+3 template.

 

[Graf]

If you really feel like you need to give a spontaneous caster, with the ability to wear armor, and while retaining the ability to do as much damage as the most damage doing class in the game, extra abilities…. Hmmm.

One of the unwritten but important aspects of DnD is that it’s a group game where different character classes are necessary for success.
Arcane casters –can- solve any problem AND do the most damage of any class. The only limits on them (really) are that they have a limited number of spell choices and they’re extraordinarily fragile in combat.

Warmages are a very careful blend of the max-damage component of arcane casting with reduced fragility. Adding back in the utility spells without adding back in some crippling flaw (i.e. to drag it back to the wizard/sorc level of fragile) is almost the definition of unbalanced.

Which is cool…. Everyone loves god-classes. It could be great for a one-on-one or a very high powered game. But you’ll fine that the majority of people on the boards who are concerned with class balance aren’t going to respond favorably to you.