Warriors of Waterdeep: New Free to Play D&D Mobile Game Coming Soon

Once again instead of making a really good CRPG based on 5th edition, they do a gimmicky game trying to cash in on a fad for a quick buck.

Meanwhile Pathfinder: Kingmaker seems really awesome, aka the model for gaming that WotC should have been looking at.

 

[Gradine]

I'm more of a Dragon Age type... neither which are D&D titles. Guess the point is we aren't seeing a true D&D video game worth a darn and must contend with the old classics?

Well, Beamdog has breathed some new life into the old classics that are worth checking out. They jumped straight to the 3D with NWN:EE coming next... I know it's a different developer but I'm curious if they're ever going to get a ToEE:EE (which is a lot of E's!) or if we're more likely to see KotOR:EE next (Star Wars licensing being what it is, though...)

That said, the indie market is also flush with a lot D&D-adjacent BG-likes, several of which are quite good.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Not suited to RPGs?
D&D was the flagship of isometric RPGs with Baldurs Gate and dominated that market. This dominance even extended into the 3D RPG market for some time with Neverwinter Nights. And before that were the Gold Box games. D&D always had a strong presence on the video game market until the end of 3E when Atari died.
But now, when isometric RPGs have made a comeback through kickstarter the only thing Hasbro managed to do are bad to mediocre games like Sword Coast Legends.

Isometric RPGs are not AAA titles. That's why Pillars of Eternity and Divinity: Original Sin had to go through Kickstarter to get the capital needed to make them.

And again, therein is the issue. Would either Obsidian Entertainment or Larian Studios been interested in making their respective games Dungeons & Dragons games? I don't know. But if they had to go through Kickstarter to get their funding... would Hasbro have licensed their D&D name to them prior to the KS, and would Obsidian/Larian have had to pay the licensing fee prior to seeing if the KS funded as well? Would they have gotten their licensing fee back had the KS not funded? And once the KS was over and they both GOT the money they needed for their respective games... it showed that they didn't need the D&D license in order to be able to make their games in the first place. Which means they kept all the monies themselves for having an original IP.

So we can throw isometric games out the window. No company that has the money to both pay the license fee *and* can subsidize the game without having to go through Kickstarter most likely isn't going to make an isometric RPG, because the audience for those games is much, much smaller and would be harder to get their investment back.

What's after that? First person RPGs then, like we have with Skyrim, Dragon Age, and WoW. What do they and all the other current popular first-person games have in common? They aren't turn-based. They are action games. Which means that any game with a D&D theme you try to create at that level is not going to be able to be completely faithful to actual 5E D&D mechanics, because those are grid and turn-based. The best we could get would be Dragon Age-like, which does allow for pausing after each turn to queue up subsequent moves. But even then... when you don't have it pausing, the game runs like an action RPG. Which is fine! I like action RPGs just great. But everyone here is clamoring for a game using 5E D&D mechanics, which in the context of action RPGs, is not completely suited and most likely liberties in how the game works will be made.

Could you get close to D&D 5E? Sure, maybe. But would just being close be enough for people? I don't see how... seeing as how if games like Skyrim and Dragon Age aren't "fantasy sword and sorcery" close enough to count as a D&D game, then obviously whatever is made has to be even more faithful (and presumably have all the names be Forgotten Realms names.)

Which again comes down to some company who can afford to make a game on the level of Skyrim and Dragon Age, be willing to pay for the license and not own their own IP. And thus why no one is stepping up.

No one wants to make your D&D heartbreaker videogame. Because anyone who can doesn't want to pay for the IP. And the company who does own the IP doesn't make their own videogames. So we're out of luck. And there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'm more of a Dragon Age type... neither which are D&D titles. Guess the point is we aren't seeing a true D&D video game worth a darn and must contend with the old classics?

Yep. The Forgotten Realms IP isn't worth picking up if you're going to make a AA or AAA title, and the 5E grid and turn-based mechanics are not suited for the type of AAA action games that AAA companies are making right now.

 

[Zardnaar]

Free2Play=garbage

Why do they keep wasting the D&D license on everything except a full-featured CRPG?

Because CRPGs are to expensive to develop now.

 

[Zardnaar]

Why would they want to? Spend $500 million to create a video game they have little experience making just because the tabletop D&D players want a video game with D&D characters in it? When they can already play much better fantasy RPGs like Skyrim, Dragon Age, and World of Warcraft than anything they themselves would be able to make? Especially when it's discovered that tabletop D&D rules are not suited for modern video games, and thus whatever they end up making will be bitched about by the tabletops players as being poor substitutes?

Hasbro probably has better ways to throw away $500 million.

Doesn't cost 500 million. Average game price is about $80 million.

Witcher III (made cheap by eastern European developer) around 80 millon.


AAA+ title made by western developer (more labour costs) 100+ million. Example Assassins Creed.
200 million+ Grand Theft Auto 5 (makes 5 million per day almost 5 years after release).

If you want a cheap D&D game that is good (Pillars of Eternity type graphics) you are looking at something like 5-10 million.

The only way WoTC is going to get a smash hit game is find someone who can make a good game, Obsidian perhaps. They would either have to give them the license for cheap/free or even pay them money and come up with some sort of profit share agreement or a structured licensing deal. And said company probably would need a kickstarter as well.

By that I mean its something like if D&D game makes ABC money we get 10%, if it makes XYZ amount we get 50%.

If they can make a good game that is a smash hit by indie standards then the company could make a sequel with a more traditional licensing fee. For a publisher they would also need to probably go with one of the smaller ones like Paradox Interactive and its probably cheaper to license a engine than make one yourself unless you are making shovel ware or another very basic game.

By basic think something like PS1 or PS2 or Warcraft III level of graphics perhaps updated a bit.

 

[DEFCON 1]

200 million+ Grand Theft Auto 5 (makes 5 million per day almost 5 years after release).

Heh... while I personally would love to see a Sword Coast Daggerford/Waterdeep/Neverwinter 'Grand Theft Horseback' type of open-world game... I dunno if that's what other people would consider enough of a 'D&D game'. Especially considering the number of people who keep dumping on the Realms.

 

[Zardnaar]

Heh... while I personally would love to see a Sword Coast Daggerford/Waterdeep/Neverwinter 'Grand Theft Horseback' type of open-world game... I dunno if that's what other people would consider enough of a 'D&D game'. Especially considering the number of people who keep dumping on the Realms.

GTA has had RPG elements since San Andreas on the PS2.

It cold be any type of open world game, its gonna cost a lot. I think Zelda Breath of the Wild was reasonably cheap though not 100% sure. Looks pretty but its cel shaded. WotC wnats to do it on the cheap, the problem is they are not doing themselves a favor with a reputation of shovelware D&D games and Movies. Neverwinter may not be for everyone but it seems to avoid the "this is outright crap" thing.

No D&D game is ever really a perfect adaption of the actual game. It shold still be based on the RPG though ( eg Eyes of the Beholder I, II, Baldurs Gate. Knights of the Old Republic).

 

[BookBarbarian]

First person RPGs then, like we have with Skyrim, Dragon Age, and WoW.

Don't forget The Witcher. The Witcher 3 made money hand over fist. It's still one of the top twelve selling games on Steam over 2 years after it's release. It also showed that my character could have interesting companions, and relationships with them without controlling a whole party like in Dragon Age.

Interestingly it's also a licensed product albeit from an author rather than big Game/Toy company like Hasbro. And that could be a significant difference.

Also while the 3rd one was a AAA game, the first really wasn't. It was the success of 1 & 2 that turned CD Projekt Red into a AAA gameshop.

The point of which is to say, I think it's possible for this to happen with a new D&D game, however it have to be pretty much the perfect storm of game development that CD Projekt Red was.

It would make a lot more sense for a company to get the license, then make a game (or games) that would make a lot of profit before moving into that.

Mobile games are definitely one of those as those Castle Crasher games make stupid amounts of money. Also card games like Heroes of the Storm, though I doubt WotC would make a game that would directly complete with it's online M:tG game. Also an Esports game like Overwatch, CS: GO, Rainbow Six: Seige.

 

[Derren]

Isometric RPGs are not AAA titles. That's why Pillars of Eternity and Divinity: Original Sin had to go through Kickstarter to get the capital needed to make them.

And again, therein is the issue. Would either Obsidian Entertainment or Larian Studios been interested in making their respective games Dungeons & Dragons games? I don't know. But if they had to go through Kickstarter to get their funding... would Hasbro have licensed their D&D name to them prior to the KS, and would Obsidian/Larian have had to pay the licensing fee prior to seeing if the KS funded as well? Would they have gotten their licensing fee back had the KS not funded? And once the KS was over and they both GOT the money they needed for their respective games... it showed that they didn't need the D&D license in order to be able to make their games in the first place. Which means they kept all the monies themselves for having an original IP.

So we can throw isometric games out the window. No company that has the money to both pay the license fee *and* can subsidize the game without having to go through Kickstarter most likely isn't going to make an isometric RPG, because the audience for those games is much, much smaller and would be harder to get their investment back.

Thats rather silly. Yes, they are not AAA games, but still better than anything WotC/Hasbro was able to do. Not to mention that for a "Not AAA" game Divinity 2 did get quite a few of awards and "Best of 2017" titles.
And more publicity can never hurt, especially if you use kickstarter (Which you do not have to, see Tyranny). Also you do not need to get a existing studio to make the game. Assembling a team of industry veterans is also possible, thats how most kickstarter games start.
The entire problem is Hasbros greed as for D&D to be attractive for kickstarter the fee must be low, including the cut of the profits. But that is not going to happen, so while the genre had a revival with Pillars, Tyranny, Wasteland and Torment (which was the best chance for D&D as it was supposed to be a sequel to Planescape) the former king of the genre stays at his crumbling home and complains that he deserves better.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The entire problem is Hasbros greed as for D&D to be attractive for kickstarter the fee must be low, including the cut of the profits. But that is not going to happen, so while the genre had a revival with Pillars, Tyranny, Wasteland and Torment (which was the best chance for D&D as it was supposed to be a sequel to Planescape) the former king of the genre stays at his crumbling home and complains that he deserves better.

It ain't the former king that is staying home and complaining that he deserves better... it's a handful of his subjects (you guys) that are complaining that he's staying home and deserves better. Neither Hasbro nor WotC seem all that concerned that there's no D&D video game out there on the scale of either Divinity or Dragon Age. That concern all comes from the handful of tabletop players out there for whom Divinity or Dragon Age isn't enough.