Water, water everywhere, Nor any drop to drink

[ChrisCarlson]

Perhaps not support-only classes, but clerics and bards are very support-focused classes.

Are they? What leads you to perceive them that way?

I still can't build a martial support character.

Can't you? Why do you perceive that to be the case?

 

[pemerton]

And yet the post above yours, that you quoted, would like to see a warlord that can do multitudes more -- all at once and every round -- than any other class currently.

<snip>

As soon as someone, such as KickZak with such demands for their dream class, has to put it on paper, the reality of 5e's design parameters kick in and they can't have what they want without making a hopefully broken class.

Unless I"m mistaken, [MENTION=6748747]ZickZak[/MENTION] agrees with you and is an outsploken opponent of the warlord for 5e.

 

[pemerton]

the poster who responded to you seemed to think your over-the-top list of abilities was acceptable and doable. And that's the scary thing.

I'm sorry to have scared you - hopefully you've recovered by now.

But I'm not sure how you infer, from my remark that "there are other classes that buff and grant bonus actions without being overpowered, so I don't see why the warlord would have to be any different in this respect" that I agree with a warlord opponent's ironic description of a broken build.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Unless I"m mistaken, [MENTION=6748747]ZickZak[/MENTION] agrees with you and is an outsploken opponent of the warlord for 5e.

Doesn't matter. And I'm not an opponent of a warlord for 5e, so I wouldn't know. I just don't see a need to rehash something that already exists. Nor do I expect that any attempt by those of you who think warlords need MOAR POWERZ can accomplish one while remaining true to 5e's design expectations and balance.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

But I'm not sure how you infer, from my remark that "there are other classes that buff and grant bonus actions without being overpowered, so I don't see why the warlord would have to be any different in this respect" that I agree with a warlord opponent's ironic description of a broken build.

Talk is cheap. I say, give it a go. I'd love to see how you manage to pull it off.

 

[jayoungr]

Can't say i've ever played, or seen play, a warlord who allowed things to happen simply because of their presences.

Well--the concept is that the Warlord enables party members to push themselves harder and accomplish things that they couldn't do without the Warlord, right? It sounds like an aura to me, but maybe I'm missing something.

Even the marshal's aura was flavor as you doing things. The DR1/- aura was because you continually kept a sharp eye out for attacks, and advised, encouraged, cajoled, on every attack.

Couldn't a 5E Warlord aura work the same way? If not, why not?

 

[mellored]

You mean like the mastermind rogue? Or the Purple Dragon Knight?

Those are not support classes, builds, or characterd. They are fighter and rogue, with some support abilities.

The Battle Master fighter can also be support. Taking the Protection Fighting Style helps the AC of others, Action Surge can be used for the Help action as well as the maneuvers Commander's Strike, Distracting Strike, Maneuvering Attack, Rally, and Trip attack. Pair those with the Healer and Inspiring Leader feats and you're focused on helping.

Yea, I tried it. And it's 1/2 way there.
But the other 1/2 is being a fighter.

It's like if you where an illusionist, but half your slots need to be used for evocation spells.

 

[Jester David]

They are fighter and rogue, with some support abilities.

If you play the character as a support character then it is a support character. The game is about how things happen at the table, not what happens in the character builder.
It doesn't matter one whit if your character is all support abilities if you take the Great Weapon Fighter feat then charge into melee and punch a dude in the throat.

Yea, I tried it. And it's 1/2 way there.
But the other 1/2 is being a fighter.

It's like if you where an illusionist, but half your slots need to be used for evocation spells.

In fairness, the 4e warlord cracked a few heads. They were a melee combat class. They did their support between and during smacking their enemies in the face.
When you strip away the minor movement, incidental attack bonuses, and the like much of what the warlord did was fairly fighterty. The pure support warlord only existed after a couple splatbooks, several Dragon articles, and multiple years.

 

[mellored]

Couldn't a 5E Warlord aura work the same way? If not, why not?

They can work just fine. No reason they couldn't be balanced and effective.
I didn't mean to imply they couldn't.

I am certainly not the authority on what works for you.

 

[mellored]

If you play the character as a support character then it is a support character. The game is about how things happen at the table, not what happens in the character builder.
It doesn't matter one whit if your character is all support abilities if you take the Great Weapon Fighter feat then charge into melee and punch a dude in the throat.

I could play a wizard who only used the help action.

But that's not a balanced choice.

In fairness, the 4e warlord cracked a few heads. They were a melee combat class. They did their support between and during smacking their enemies in the face.

ok...
But again, I'm not looking for a 4e warlord. It would be good if smashing skulls was an option, but not that you are forced to do it.

When you strip away the minor movement, incidental attack bonuses, and the like much of what the warlord did was fairly fighterty. The pure support warlord only existed after a couple splatbooks, several Dragon articles, and multiple years.

I don't expect it to happen soon. At least not before the mystic or ranger rework.