[Way OT & possibly NC-17 rated] Can men and women "just be friends"?

[BOZ]

mutual attraction is a much different story than a one-sided situation. if you tell her she's hot and she shrugs, then "just friends" is how it's gonna stay. unless you decide to be a jerk about it, that is, and now you're "not friends".

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

oh, i'll add one more thing, about massage. i don't give my female friends massages. that's just asking for trouble. if you've seen pulp fiction, i don't want to end up the samoan guy who gave marcellus' wife a foot massage.

Yes, we should all learn a lesson from Tony Rocky Horror.

 

[fusangite]

[So, can men and women "just be friends"? I mean, truly friends and that's it?

Of course. Even if all the friendships I think are friendships are a delusion on my part, I see so many other male-female non-sexual friendships that I cannot imagine that they're all part of some massive shared delusion.

Friends like two guys being friends or two girls being friends. And I am talking a straight man and a straight woman here. Can you be friends with a person of the opposite sex w/o flirting or thinking about "shagging" them?

Yep. Even assuming that all men automatically fantasize sexually about any woman who is remotely sexually attractive, which I don't think is the case (barring again some massive degree of self-delusion on my part and that of many of my friends), how do you explain all the extremely sexually unattractive women who have male friends?

There will always be flirting for one. I don't think friends flirt. I sure as hell don't flirt with my male friends, but I certainly flirt with my female friends.

This is EN World; I'm sure a significant minority of the people reading this thread have never flirted with anyone in their entire lives. Hoisting up the great geek banner and rushing to the head of the charge, I must say that I think you're making a gigantic assumption that flirting is something everyone does on a weekly or even monthly basis. I probably "flirt" with someone 2-4 times per year, in total.

Here is a test to see if you can truly "just be friends" with someone of the opposite sex. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, you do with your friend of the opposite sex, do it with your friend of the same sex.

Yep. Done. I think there are maybe 3 male friends with whom I do things I wouldn't do with female friends (engage in misogynistic banter) and 2 female friends with whom I do things I wouldn't do with male friends (give back massages). However, I have, in both cases more than ten times the number of friends with whom I behave in the same way irrespective of gender.

Why do I give these two women back massages and yet not give them to my male friends? (1) They are the only people who have asked me for a back massage; (2) I think it's just decreed by social convention that a man giving a man a massage carries a degree of stigma; (3) Maybe I'm homophobic or maybe I just prefer touching less hairy, better smelling softer creatures.

Do all the other little flirty things with your female friends, then see if you can do them with your male friends and see if it isn't weird.

I don't flirt with my friends. That would be weird.

 

[Limper]

I'll drop my divine opinion on the side of.....





Nope. Men and women can not effectively be friends. It never works out right in the end.

 

[MerakSpielman]

To tell you the truth, I have a really hard time being friends with other men. When men get alone, the guy-talk starts up, and there's usually a lot of crudeness and rudeness, as well as lots of inappropriate comments about women, homosexuals, and some other topics, like ballet (which I like), poetry, and other arts. If called on it, they were always, "just messin' around."

That and the fact that I have virtually no interest in cars, sports, crude sexual discussions, drinking, complaining about my wife, humor involving bodily functions, or any kind of violence (including hunting) leaves me with little in common with most male groups I have met (with the possible exception of my D&D guy friends - but I've never actually been alone with them - the womenfolk are always there. So if they have behavior I don't approve of, I haven't seen it because they won't act badly in front of the women).

I loathe this sort of guy talk, but most men seem to do it when left to their own devices, and not think twice about it. I've been told several times by different groups of women I've hung out with that they forget I'm a guy after a while ("in a good way," they always qualify). They're very open around me, treating me like I was "one of the girls." Women seem to be a lot nicer when they're away from men (as opposed to the other way around), and frankly, I find their company much more bearable.

None of them have ever asked me for a massage, but I give them hugs all the time.

Some of them are very pretty. I can admire that. I can also admire butterflys and impressionist paintings. I appreciate beauty where I see it, but sex isn't really a part of the mental process I'm using when I'm appreciating the beauty of a woman.

And yes, I can appreciate the beauty of men too - despite being straight - so don't go saying that my admiration of female physical form is sexual. Sometimes I see men that make me think, "gosh, if I were gay, I'd go for him." This is an example of a thing you don't bring up in a guy-only conversation. It freaks them out. But women are cool with it. You can talk about almost anything with women. I also see women that make me think, "gosh, if I weren't married, I'd go for her." But never my friends - I respect them too much to belittle them in my mind.

Some guys have asked me the question (during those almost unbearable guy-only conversations), "if you could have an affair with the most beautiful woman you can imagine, and you knew there was absolutely no way you could get caught or suffer consequenses of any kind, would you go for it?" and seem utterly astonished when I answer, without hesitation, with a firm NO. Is my attitude really that unusual? Would their conscience not be bothered by a total betrayal of the trust of the one they love, even if she never found out?

I sometimes think the vast majority of other men think about nothing but sex, and when, where, and from whom they can next get it.

Pigs.

 

[S'mon]

You can be 'just friends' with someone of the opposite sex if you don't fancy them, I'd think. Actually, you can be 'just friends' with someone of the opposite sex if _they_ don't fancy _you_...

If you're giving each other massages you're not 'just friends'.

 

[fusangite]

Original questions aside, I do basically agree with Teflon Billy on one key issue:

People cannot decide how to feel or what to want. If it were easier to change what you want than it is to change what you have, the world would be a radically different place than it is. As hard as it is to change what you have, evidence shows that most people find it a thousand times easier than it is to change what you want.

 

[MerakSpielman]

If you're giving each other massages you're not 'just friends'.

You know, there is such a thing as a theripudic (sp) massage. But from the people I've talked to - women don't care about the gender of the person giving the massage. Men do. They often don't want a male masseuse.

Why is this?

To a man, it seems, a massage is always, on some level, erotic. I guess having somebody's hands all over your body just makes a man think that way. When another man is giving the massage to a straight man, well, sometimes they feel threatoned.

So girls, if a man offeres to give you a massage, he's probably hoping it will go futher, while you're probably thinking, maybe he can work out that kink that's been bothering me. And if you give a guy a massage, he's probably thinking you want him, and you're probably hoping you're helping his backache.

(the above comments are probably generalizations)

 

[S'mon]

You know, there is such a thing as a theripudic (sp) massage. But from the people I've talked to - women don't care about the gender of the person giving the massage. Men do. They often don't want a male masseuse.

Why is this?

To a man, it seems, a massage is always, on some level, erotic. I guess having somebody's hands all over your body just makes a man think that way. When another man is giving the massage to a straight man, well, sometimes they feel threatoned.

So girls, if a man offeres to give you a massage, he's probably hoping it will go futher, while you're probably thinking, maybe he can work out that kink that's been bothering me. And if you give a guy a massage, he's probably thinking you want him, and you're probably hoping you're helping his backache.

(the above comments are probably generalizations)

I agree - I've had lots of therapeutic massage from men & women for my back pain. But unless the 2 'friends' massaging each other are both professional masseur/euse-s I stand by my comment.

(BTW not all men have hairy backs - I don't).

Thinking of real life, as an undergrad I, a straight man, had a good friend who was a straight woman, and quite nice-looking. This didn't stop us being friends.
I had another male friend who appeared to be gay (he was very religious & denied it) , likewise was not a problem.

I don't think you can be friends with someone you feel romantic towards or fancy (lust after), but just because you think someone is good-looking shouldn't prevent friendship.

However, I definitely think there are men who can't relate to women just as friends, and vice versa. Very 'macho' men or 'feminine' women, perhaps. Perhaps the same people who object to trans-gender roleplay...

So just because _some_ men and women can be 'just friends', doesn't mean everyone can. Social norms may get in the way of cross-gender friendship, likewise. In a culture where men and women are expected to have very different roles (eg men - hunters, women - gatherers) cross-gender friendship may be less likely.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

For a great dissertation (of sorts) on this topic, go here:

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

Warning: Kind of a long read, but worth it.


FWIW, I agree completely with this guy. It may not be politically correct, but it is true.