Ways to stop a powergamer

[wujenta]

Hi everyone,

In our group there is a powergamer. That is a fact. I am the primary DM (90% of the games are run by me), and I am trying to put some house rules to prevent powergamig. I like a powerful character, but sometimes to threaten the powergamer, I have to put an enemy capable of TPK the other party members.

In the last game we were fighting against a dragon with an armor class of 48, and in one round, he dealt more than 200 hp. We were playing the epic level module from dungeon 93 and he was a 20 level paladin / sorcerer / eldritch knight /spellsword hasted with greataxe, polimorphed in a stone giant, activating arcane strike with a 6th level spell, activating divine might, and making a smite attack in the third attack with a charisma bonus of +8 I think, and thank god he doesnt score a critical. His armor was nearly 40 without a shield, far better than the other 2-handed users of the party. The other members of the party were: a 23 level cleric, a 20 level fighter/rogue, a rogue 21, a monk 22 and a fighter/cleric 20. The dragon survived the attack and in the next round put him in the negatives. After that, the rest of the group managed to kill the dragon with some luck involved.

He always has been a powergamer, but 2 or 3 months ago he discovered enworld (I know now that I should never told him about this site) and has been looking for all kind of ideas about min/maxing his characters. I have been playing with him for 10 years more or less, heck, he was the one who introduced me to roleplay.


As you can see, the other players and I, dont like a lot prestige classes, we use them, but not with every character (I have a rogue/wizard/arcane trickster/archmage for example other player has a fighter/wizard/eldritch knight and other one has a fighter/weapon master)

So what kind of house rules do you think I can put in use to stop him to make all other pc´s be simple followers?

Ah, I forgot

hi Oscar, I know you will be reading this sooner or later.

 

[Darklone]

Hi Oscar!

Wujenta: Talk with him about it. Give him the ok that he will be allowed to play the big bad basher in the group... but ask him not to play around too much. As soon as it disturbs the group, he will be out and you'll have trouble.

Cha +8 mod at that level... that's a powergamer ? hehehehehehe

Talk about it with the other group members as well. If they have fun, go ahead. Let him play. If not, ask him to cooperate... perhaps play another character or bard

Talking helps, I'm going to get drunk instead.

 

[Thotas]

First and foremost, if you're the DM and aren't fond of PrCs, disallow them. Or at least make a short list of those available. Same goes with any Feat, Spell or Magic Item you think is too far gone. That's the ounce of prevention, as the saying goes.

Sorry, I can't help ya with the pound of cure, though. I've never played anywhere near the general level of power you're talking about, so it's hard for me to tell how much he overshadows the others. Generally, though, the way to handle a situation similar to yours is to find one thing for each of the other characters that they do better than he does and play up those situations. Be careful not pick on the power gamer, just play to the strengths of the others, for at least a little while.

 

[Namfoddle]

Since I'm a DM for over 10 years now, I had to deal with power gamers as well. So here's my view on this:

First of all, never forget the main rule of the game. Everything may be possible in the game, as long as the DM goes along with it. I'm no friend of too much restriction since it can kill a lot of fun at the gaming table, however, I really consider carefully what stuff, rules, prestige classes, etc. I allow in the campaign. But once something is in the campaign - stick to it.

However, clever players always seem to find a way to power up their characters, no matter how much restriction you put on them. There'll always be some kind of hole in the house rules they can use to their advantage.

So in comes the DM. I know this is tricky, but one of the most important abilities of a DM seems to be the ability to be creative and to come up with solutions really fast. Instead of waiting for the player to act, act first. Don't restrict his option, but create some kind of environment that really challenges him.

Put your player in unfavorbale envirement for example. An antimagic-field, some kind of envirement conditions that impose penalties, let some clever NPCs thief steal one of his favorite items (which might be an adventure hook for him to recapture it...), enhance your option by getting the party to another plane which might allow 3-dimensional combat, just stuff like that. Create encounters where he needs his party-members.

You'll see, that the powergames won't be angry since you don't allow to use his ideas, but that he even might enjoy your game even more since you find some interesting way to challenge him.

 

[mikebr99]

He did 200 damage at 20th level... with buffing out the wahoo, and you think that is to much?

And he fell the next round?

I fail to see the problem here...


Mike

 

[Darklone]

Another answer from me (just a cry to notice me).

Don't work against him with tailored encounters or other stuff. He'll adapt, it's the way of the powergamer. War against him will not help, it will make the situation worse and worse.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Post his character sheet here.

A lot of DMs resist this, but without seeing the sheet, we can't help you.

 

[tetsujin28]

Honestly? I've been playing since '76, and I don't see what the big deal is. You're talking about 20th level+ characters, here. They're going to kick ***. That's what they're for. You're the one who allowed the character to be played in the first place. If that's not the direction you want the campaign to go -- and talk this over with the players, 'cause they might be having a good time -- you're going to have to make adjustments to what you allow in your game. But not allowing someone to make the character that best fits their style of enjoyment, within the limits of the campaign, is not the way to go.

 

[Halivar]

He did 200 damage at 20th level... with buffing out the wahoo, and you think that is to much?

Absolutely not. A real powergamer would be dealing that out at 16th level, and wouldn't take a scratch.

In all seriousness, the wrong wrong wrong thing to do is make up new rules specifically designed to hobble him in particular. Even if you say, "Ok folks, the following prestige classes are disallowed for everyone", if he is the only one taking those classes, then it's still singling him out. That will create animosity.

The issue here is that the player is simply out-strategizing the DM. Telling someone they, in particular, are no longer allowed to play core rule classes is just making up for a DM's inability to construct challenging scenarios for that player. The answer is not hobbling the player; the answer is to gain a better understanding of the rules and how they work together. In essence, to beat a powergamer fair and square (which is the every DM's ultimate goal, especially mine ), you must become a powergamer yourself. Handicapping a player is just not fun. Not for the player, anyway (and that is the reason we play, isn't it?)

I say, sit down with the guy. Say to him, "make me a level 12 necromancer" and have him describe every step of the process. Learn how he makes class, feat and skill choices. Practice yourself. I often just roll up characters to see how well I can cheese them without fudging the core rules. Then take this knowledge and apply it to monsters. You'll find often that you don't need to throw CR+5 creatures at your party; equal CR monsters can be just as deadly with the right classes and feats.

Something else you probably need to learn is tactics. This comes with practice. The right room setup, and the right monster positioning can turn a cake-walk into a TPK, even for an experienced powergamer. No lie.

 

[scourger]

Take your game back to the core. Let the players use the PHB only. That's the way I do it.