D&D (2024) We have Arcane, Divine, and Primal lists now. Why not Psionic?

[Yaarel]

Superman is explicitly vulnerable to magic. Within DC, magic is a specific thing, like lightning is different from fire in D&D. Pre-WotC D&D understood psionics and magic as different categories of supernatural energy with different properties.

In a D&D context, with regard to the many of ways of doing magic,

Arcane and Divine are different categories of magic.

I view Arcane as protoscientific exploiting the various magical properties that are inherent in mundane objects.

I view Divine as linguistic, conjuring the influences of archetypes, symbols, words, cultures, and meaning itself.

Arcane and Divine tap into the weave.

Psionic and I add Primal instead form a personal magical weave as an aura around the individual person.

 

[Yaarel]

It was absolutely not.

Oh but yes. 4e allowed Martial characters to preform magical feats because Martial itself is capable of magical effects. The 4e sources are different flavors of magic, including Martial and its mythic marvels.

 

[Incenjucar]

Oh but yes. 4e allowed Martial characters to preform magical feats because Martial itself is capable of magical effects.

A very good example of my point on moving away from usefully distinct categories.

 

[Yaarel]

A very good example of my point on moving away from usefully distinct categories.

Right but. More helpfully. 4e uses the "Sources" to more clearly distinguish between themes of the wondrous.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Oh but yes. 4e allowed Martial characters to preform magical feats because Martial itself is capable of magical effects. The 4e sources are different flavors of magic, including Martial and its mythic marvels.

No.

The 'lol everyone is magic because they have discreet abilities' thing was BS made up be very sad people trying to defame the game and repeated via pop cultural osmosis. 'Power Sources' were not sources of magic, but categories of how characters did what they did.

Knocking people over and taunting them, despite the popular zeitgeist of D&D parlance is not a 'magical effect'.

Magic is not 'something I can't do because I personally never trained to do it'. Usan Bolt and Jake Lalane are not wizards.

 

[Yaarel]

No.

The 'lol everyone is magic because they have discreet abilities' thing was BS made up be very sad people trying to defame the game and repeated via pop cultural osmosis. 'Power Sources' were not sources of magic, but categories of how characters did what they did.

Knocking people over and taunting them, despite the popular zeitgeist of D&D parlance is not a 'magical effect'.

Magic is not 'something I can't do because I personally never trained to do it'. Usan Bolt and Jake Lalane are not wizards.

I am talking about the 4e designers referring to the Martial source as magic.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I am talking about the 4e designers referring to the Martial source as magic.

Again.

No.

 

[Yaarel]

Again.

No.

The 4e designers did refer the Martial source as a form of "magic".

But perhaps officially, 4e keeps a nominal distinction.

For example, this quote comes from the Martial Power Source 1: "All legendary warriors develop martial power to such an extent that their abilities are the equal of magical abilities."

Then again, a "Martial" Rogue feature can do this: "You steal a bit of magic to stow away on another creature’s teleportation."

"Martial Healing. What explains your warlord’s ability to heal your allies’ wounds? It might seem almost magical − and certainly at the highest levels it is superhuman. But your inspiring word is fundamentally a reflection of your ability to get your allies to do their best."

(Note, 5e is clearer about hit point damage being superficial unless zero hit points. Thus healing any nonphysical damage can be strictly mundane.)

The 4e Martial power source is defacto magic, in any case. Even if there is sometimes a dejure hesitance.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The 4e designers did refer the Martial source as a form of "magic".

But perhaps officially, 4e keeps a nominal distinction.

For example, this quote comes from the Martial Power Source 1: "All legendary warriors develop martial power to such an extent that their abilities are the equal of magical abilities."

Then again, a "Martial" Rogue feature can do this: "You steal a bit of magic to stow away on another creature’s teleportation."

The 4e Martial power source is defacto magic, in any case. Even if there is sometimes a dejure hesitance.

So... being the equivalent in power to and being able to physically steal something is 'defacto' that thing?

Like a nuclear weapon being measured in tons of TNT means TNT is radioactive?

Or stealing a loaf of bread makes one a baker?

 

[CreamCloud0]

The 4e designers did refer the Martial source as a form of "magic".

But perhaps officially, 4e keeps a nominal distinction.

For example, this quote comes from the Martial Power Source 1: "All legendary warriors develop martial power to such an extent that their abilities are the equal of magical abilities."

Then again, a "Martial" Rogue feature can do this: "You steal a bit of magic to stow away on another creature’s teleportation."

The 4e Martial power source is defacto magic, in any case. Even if there is sometimes a dejure hesitance.

wouldn't "legendary warriors develop martial power to such an extent that their abilities are the equal of magical abilities" inherently imply that their abilities aren't magical in any sense???