OGL We might want to start saving Websites

They can't "make money" suing people.

Hiring proper lawyers, building a proper case, going to court, and so on, even if the other side didn't even turn up would likely cost WotC far, far more than the amount of damages they could realistically extract from any of these websites.

They might sue some for the deterrent value or even just out of general malice, but they sure as hell aren't going to be suing them to "make money".
If they're set on going down the lawfare route, they're unlikely to have to sue anyone. They will use DMCA takedown notices and scary C&D letters, and many people will just comply out of fear. The USA is a cyberpunk dystopia, remember? You pay your own legal costs even if you win the case.

What does WizBro gain by this? They create an atmosphere of fear, which serves to keep people compliant and in line. This lets them build walled gardens that they can monetize.

And you're aware that this just happened with Games Workshop and their fan content policy on animated films, right? Games Workshop is trying to shut down fan animations
 

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JEB

Legend
Who would have thought six months ago that we'd be at this point? Where it seems entirely plausible that Wizards of the Coast might repeat the same types of mistakes that hurt previous editions of the game in the eyes of its fans?
 


If they're set on going down the lawfare route, they're unlikely to have to sue anyone. They will use DMCA takedown notices and scary C&D letters, and many people will just comply out of fear. The USA is a cyberpunk dystopia, remember? You pay your own legal costs even if you win the case.

What does WizBro gain by this? They create an atmosphere of fear, which serves to keep people compliant and in line. This lets them build walled gardens that they can monetize.

And you're aware that this just happened with Games Workshop and their fan content policy on animated films, right? Games Workshop is trying to shut down fan animations
Uh huh.

None of which makes them money in any direct way, and might not even make them money indirectly, because the walled garden is likely to be a disaster lol.
 

Horwath

Hero
This lets them build walled gardens that they can monetize.
Walled garden could very well be at their own loss.

If the wall is too high no one will try to climb it to be sure, but it also isolates them inside their garden.

Like that crazy prepper neighbor, he might raise his wall to "protect himself from zombies", but what he does is protecting the rest of the community from himself and his insanity.
 

It's not nearly as intimidating as it sounds. Just do the download, and then zip it.
Compression of HTML/TXT based documents is roughly 7:1
Yeah, graphics run up the size a bit, but that's not to bad.

The 3 Downloads I did of the WOTC Discussion forms, compressed as a Zip, take up just over 3 GB.
The last one I did of Enworld takes up just under 3.5GB, and is 22 on drive uncompressed.
GITP takes just under 400MB zipped,
RPGdotNet takes 2.1 GB zipped,
I see you were credited on Pandius for your download of the WotC forums. ;)
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
None of which makes them money in any direct way, and might not even make them money indirectly, because the walled garden is likely to be a disaster lol.
Everyone looks at Apple's walled garden and wants to make their own.

But it's kind of like Marvel movies. Lots of folks want to make one, but that doesn't mean they can actually make it work.

(In actuality I don't think that Hasbro has the corporate stamina to make a walled garden for D&D work. It wouldn't turn around a profit fast enough, a new person would be put in charge with new ideas, and the whole thing would be yet another thing they tried and abandoned. People often miss that Apple spent literally decades building walled gardens before iTunes took off and let them finally grow into a powerhouse. You have to be willing to put in that kind of time and work and I just don't think Hasbro has it in them.)
 

Everyone looks at Apple's walled garden and wants to make their own.

But it's kind of like Marvel movies. Lots of folks want to make one, but that doesn't mean they can actually make it work.
Or like looking at World of Warcraft, yeah.
In actuality I don't think that Hasbro has the corporate stamina to make a walled garden for D&D work. It wouldn't turn around a profit fast enough, a new person would be put in charge with new ideas, and the whole thing would be yet another thing they tried and abandoned.
That's what I've been predicting too. I think if the 3D VTT isn't more or less immediately a huge blow-out hit like WoW people are going to be looking for who to blame, rather than how to develop it.
 

Solauren

Explorer
Can a mod split this off into a discussion of possible impacts of the new OGL on the Web, and 'what websites would be a good idea to back up'? I feel the dicussion, while warranted, has derailed the primary purpose of this thread.
 

Everyone looks at Apple's walled garden and wants to make their own.

But it's kind of like Marvel movies. Lots of folks want to make one, but that doesn't mean they can actually make it work.
Copy a working formula isn't as easy as it sounds... If TAB got it's hands 100% on the coke formula and put out "I can't believe it's not coke" it still would not sell like Coke does...

Wanting to make a cinematic universe is great... but you can't just copy marvel and make it work, because we already HAVE marvel, you have to be different AND as good.
 

ThorinTeague

Explorer
Copy a working formula isn't as easy as it sounds... If TAB got it's hands 100% on the coke formula and put out "I can't believe it's not coke" it still would not sell like Coke does...

Wanting to make a cinematic universe is great... but you can't just copy marvel and make it work, because we already HAVE marvel, you have to be different AND as good.
Salient. Again...

New Coke.
 


Solauren

Explorer
One also needs to think about something. The leaked version of the OLG that started this mess looked design to give WOTC a monopoly as far as D&D and D&D related games goes. The ability to make money of anyone making money off it, or to shut them down.

Yes, they appear to be backing off somewhat (appear being the key word), but that doesn't mean that's not a goal.

And if I was them, the first step in that monopoly would be getting rid of as much 'free content' as they could. Why buy the cow, when the milk is free?

That would mean shutting down as many websites as quickly as they could. Take down notices are a quick way to do that. Threatening the webhosts of those websites is another. In fact, threatening the web-host would be the best way to do that.

WOTC threatens the web-host, and the web-host can shut down the 'offending website', and tell tell the former operator 'you violated our terms and conditions', and that's that. The website doesn't even have to learn that WOTC is the one that caused it.

Hell, they could release a 'friendly' new OGL, and still pull that. With no free mechanical content (they'll never pull that off with graphics, maps and the like), people will only be able to get paid content.

And to the average person, which is more attractive? Content from the original creators (WOTC), or a 3rd party?
Most of the gamers I know either used free from the web, or WOTC stuff during 3.X, or Paizo if they went to Pathfinder. Most saw my 3rd party collection and looked at me funny for 'wasting money.'
 


Solauren

Explorer
Added

Come on people, start tossing out websites to backup! I'm hoping to start downloading in the near future and posting the zips online somewhere.
 

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