We need a cool new name for character optimizers...

[Kae'Yoss]

Whatever your original intent, please don't get into discussion of my request here.


As for the term "power gamer". It's got a negative connotation, but power's a good thing, no?

Anyway, I want both in my RPG experiences: Characters that are good at something and characters that are more than just a bunch of stats. I want the power aspect because I think it makes more sense for exceptional characters to be heroes, and because I want to play exceptional characters. I reserve the mundane for the real world.

I want the story aspect because I don't want it to be Tabletop Diablo, where you just kill critters and conversation is limited to "I want that sword the last monster dropped". If I want that sort of thing, computer games are a much better medium, since the limits aren't keeping you from enjoying it (so the town blacksmith only says the same 10 sentences whenever you speak to him, and you can't attack that guy in the cave even though you know he'll betray you? Doesn't matter, I can still kill things) and the computer is good at adding up numbers.


But again: It wasn't really my intention to imply that those who don't like the power aspect are whiny little children crying for their mommy. It was just in good fun.

 

[Greg K]

Sure you can.

My point is that I don't have a problem with a powerful character, as long as it's roleplayed well and makes sense. I also don't think there's anything wrong with playing a "wilderness rogue."

If you thought I was responding to your post, because it was the post that I accidently hit quote for, my apologies. I thought removing the quoted text would rectify the assumption that my post was direct response to your post.

Anyway, my post was to show that their are different types of optimization and that optimization does not necessarily mean minmaxing, powergaming or munchkinism. Therefore, using any of those terms as a blanket term for optimization would be wrong.

 

[Greg K]

I agree. Munchkins cheat and obfuscate.

Yeah, munchkin, in rpgs, has always meant cheater (and more recently a great SJ game as well) among those with whom I have gamed.

 

[Doghead Thirteen]

To each his own: If you don't care about optimising your character, I have no problem with it. No style of play is wrong, as long as everyone at the table agrees.

(snip)

As for the term "power gamer". It's got a negative connotation, but power's a good thing, no?

First off; I agree with the top statement entirely. Fun's the entire point.

Before I continue, please don't anyone take what I'm about to say the wrong way. I'm talking from my own experiences and preferences here. I'm not talking about anyone on this board - I'm talking about four very specific jerks I no longer game with.

As for the term 'power gamer', in usage hereabouts it means someone who 'twinks out' their character in a way that A) interferes with the game, B) interferes with the rest of the group's enjoyment of the game and C) results in that player being booted out the group.

That's why it's got negative connotations. The players who get labelled 'powergamers' frequently take great delight in doing things like hogging all the action then laughing about how the other players 'are lame because they didn't kill anything hahaha!'. They take outlandish collections of stats and skills because A boosts B that boosts C. Their characters rarely have any personality - just a trigger finger and a hit point total.

Yes, we frequently game with fairly powerful characters. But we don't play to 'be the best' or 'beat all the other players' like many powergamers. That's the difference between powergaming and high power gaming.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

That's munchkinism.

Powergaming's just playing for power. The spotlight hogging and gamewrecking is separate.

You can be a powergamer and a deep imersion roleplayer at once.

 

[takasi]

Is that a joke? I hate to play devil's advocate, but a powergamer/munchkin/whatever you call it is demonized on this site, always has been.

There have always been powergaming threads here and very few of them are 'demonized'.

The term munchkin is not the same IMO as the term powergamer. A munchkin is an immature player (hence the reference to the midgets of Oz).

Immature acts that indicate someone is a munchkin include:

• Blatant Metagaming
• Ridiculous Min-Maxing
• Fudging Dice Rolls
• Modifying Character Sheets Behind the DM's Back
• Irrational Character Behavior to Instigate Trouble
• Promoting Party Infighting
• Stealing from the Party

 

[Bacris]

So if my barbarian takes this feat and has no ability to cast spells and I have no plans to take a spellcasting class in the future, am I still making the "optimum choice" for my character?

Now that's a facetious statement

If you really think that feat is the best choice for your non-spellcasting barbarian, it might bear pointing out that you need your head examined.

There is a difference between choosing a feat because it's "cool", and choosing a feat because it makes your character "better."

Anytime you pick one to make your character "better" and not for the "coolness" factor, you've made a choice based upon improving your character, which by definition is optimizing your character - even if only one facet of said character.

Me personally - I tend to mix between going for extremely-optimized characters and versatile characters - I'll pick feats that may not be the mechanical best for the character, but make the most sense for the character concept. Doesn't mean I haven't to an extent optimized my character

And my optimizing hasn't been an issue at any of the games I've played, because I'd like to think I'm not a munchkin But I do like having characters that are worth bringing along on the adventure, as opposed to a Commoner 6 with 3 Skill Focus (craft) feats.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Couldn't care less what some close-minded elitists like to call me.

*lol*

Likewise - particularly the unwitting hypocrites among them.

 

[lukelightning]

They like to optimize their characters; in fact, it's their prime motivation. So I say let's call 'em Optimize Prime.

 

[Umbran]

Some people here have taken it upon themselves to argue with me about moderation within the confines of the thread. Whether or not you agree with my original comment, this is explicitly against the rules of the boards.

If you have a problem, take it to e-mail. We hare happy to discuss things, but arguing with a mod in-thread is a real good way to get yourself a vacation from the boards.