We need more feats like Endurance and Skill Focus

[EOL]

In the beginning there were weak feats, feats like toughness and endurance, skill focus and dodge, and the designers did proclaim, "Not all feats are equal. In fact some feats are so weak that they make a good prerequisite disadvantage for Prestige Classes." And thus the Dwarven Defender was born.

But none of the new feats have been weak, none of the new feats seem to sacrifice power for flavor. Where are the Skill Focuses and Endurance's in MoTW or S&F?

In short I want more weak feats!!!

Anybody else agree? Anybody else think it might be the first sign of power inflation?

 

[Chronosome]

I-M-H-O, of course.

It's all a matter of perspective.

I think Shadow (S&S, MoTW) is a pretty weak feat. I've changed
it so it gives a flat out bonus to Spot and Hide checks.

Dual Strike (S&F) was a great looking feat at first, but is
overshadowed by the not-broken Great Teamwork (OA).

It really depends on your POV and gaming style...if you're a
DM, just leave the feats you feel are "balanced" in your game,
and tone down the rest...or change the environment of your game;
if it's a lot of combat, the skill feats won't be as useful, and vice versa.
If your game is involves spelunking in tight catacombs...who's
going to take Improved Flight, let alone fly? Etc, etc, etc...

If you're a player, bring this up with your DM (pretty likely your
whole group's already discussed this).

My "feat-peeve" was with Spring Attack, as it further cements
Dexterity as the "super-score", and combines really, really well
with better-than-normal movement. My players pointed out it
takes two feats and an ability-score requirement to get, so it's
limiting in the way it sucks up your feats. I agreed. So, the feat's
still in my game...I changed my combat environments 'cause of it,
though. They fight more groups of things, and there's seldom a "boss" without
some lackeys very close by (to negate that "infinite Spring" method
of whackin').

Although occasionally I'll throw in a "one-boss", just to let
my Spring Attackers (three of the four players in my group!) shine.

Hope this helps, even if it's only bump-wise.

 

[Psion]

Re: I-M-H-O, of course.

I think Shadow (S&S, MoTW) is a pretty weak feat. I've changed it so it gives a flat out bonus to Spot and Hide checks.

Congratulations! You have remade Shadow as it appears in Masters of the Wild.

 

[Chronosome]

You know, I just assumed it was the same...

Golly, do I feel embashfulled.

 

[Quickbeam]

I'm not sure whether or not we need more "weak" feats, but I do know I've begun selecting the "less" powerful feats for my PCs as a matter of course. Doing so gives me a small measure of pride that I'm not bending over backwards to munchkin every conceivable aspect of my characters. In addition, I think they force me to create better PC concepts and personalities, which lead to better roleplaying of my characters and NPCs.

Like you, EOL, I really don't approve of new feats and spells designed to be more powerful than their predecessors, yet still readily available at low levels. I have no problem with powerful feats like whirwind and spring attack, because it takes some commitment on the part of gamers to acquire these feats. It's the feats, skills and spells which function like higher level abilities yet are available to everyone without cost, that unbalance the game.

 

[Zerovoid]

Extra Slot and Extra Spell are examples of feats that seem weak to me in the same way as toughness. They're pretty impressive if you take them early, but they won't get better as your character goes up in level, thus most min-maxed characters will avoid them. An extra 3rd level spell seems pretty cool at 6th level, but by 10th, it might be less useful than Skill Focus.

I haven't seen anyone take any of the Divine feats from DotF. There are also a ton of throw-away feats in S&F. Dirty Fighting anyone? +1d4 damage, but your single attack is a full round action. How about Throw Anything? Halfling jokes aside, I don't think this will be taken very much.

Masters of the Wild has a bunch of new prerequisite type feats. Improved Flying, Improved Swimming, Instantaneous Rage, Remain Conscious. These and a bunch of others I would never take unless I had to.

 

[Victim]

Also, most PRCs seem to reqiure more core feats than those in supplements. Therefore, most PrCs will reqiure core stuff for feats rather than new stuff.

 

[EOL]

Extra Slot and Extra Spell are examples of feats that seem weak to me in the same way as toughness. They're pretty impressive if you take them early, but they won't get better as your character goes up in level, thus most min-maxed characters will avoid them. An extra 3rd level spell seems pretty cool at 6th level, but by 10th, it might be less useful than Skill Focus.

I haven't seen anyone take any of the Divine feats from DotF. There are also a ton of throw-away feats in S&F. Dirty Fighting anyone? +1d4 damage, but your single attack is a full round action. How about Throw Anything? Halfling jokes aside, I don't think this will be taken very much.

Masters of the Wild has a bunch of new prerequisite type feats. Improved Flying, Improved Swimming, Instantaneous Rage, Remain Conscious. These and a bunch of others I would never take unless I had to.

Pehaps this is what upsets me it seems that the majority of the prestige classes coming out, both from WoTC and independent D20 publishers have made it so that there's no disadvantage to taking the PrC. 3E was suppossed to be about hard choices and that seems to be getting less and less true as we see more and more Prestige classes that are what the character would have done anyway and add some powers on top of that.

 

[Warchild]

I couldn't agree more!! Prestige classes are supposed to:
1) Bring your characters more in tune with the setting, creating additional unique flavor to that which, hopefully, you've already provided.
2) Make the character more focused (usually more powerful) in a praticular area of expertise (not Expertise :0 ), while sacrificing general abilites/power level. The vast majority of prc's i have seen
have thrown that concept right out the friggin window!! "do as i say, not as i do" should be the mantra of D&D/D20 game designers.

Recently, I have had a game designer tell me that wanting balanced mechanics was silly because no one wanted that, they just wanted the next more powerful mechanic/feat/prestige class and anything else would be a boring and/or a useless gaming product!!!
Creating an overpowered/unbalancing prestige class or game mechanic by accident or from use of a new strange system-altering mechanic is one thing, but creating game mechanics with the outright intent of unbalancing the character in relation to all other characters in a campaign (including other players), is wrong, wrong, wrong! Regardless of how important the prestige class is supposed to be and regardless of any kind of zen-like understanding game designers, apparently, get from being in the business that we mere mortals cannot understand!

Was that a rant?

 

[Number47]

This is why I have been advocating, shall continue to advocate, and continue to practice in my campaign: core rules only!

Let me amend that just slightly. No published books other than the core rules. Every one of my players is seeking out a prestige class as they are getting to the level, but every prestige class is hand-crafted to suit my campaign and their character. It is a joint effort between player and DM. Same goes for crafting new feats or whatnot.

If you are the kind of DM who crafts your own world, sets in motion a storyline of your own creation and makes adventures all by yourself, you really shouldn't bow down before the all-mighty splatbook. You have already proven yourself adroit at running your own game in the way you find best. Continue doing that with feats, prestige classes, skills, spells, etc.