D&D 5E We Would Hate A BG3 Campaign

[Oofta]

Both are true.

In my own games, dragonborn and tieflings are treated with suspicion, as are half-orcs. Drow are treated with distrust and fear. Many times I allow these races, but I forewarn players choosing these races that NPCs will typically act in such a manner. The player accepting that as a role-playing challenge knows what they are getting into.

Do what works for your campaign of course, but I would be concerned with how other players could react whether or not they voiced concerns.

 

[ezo]

I am ok with it working either way, but it is the DM who decides how it works in their world, and if they do not change their setting to welcome a new race as ‘nothing to see here’, that is their prerogative

Sure. I agree completely. And if the player accepts that onus with than knowledge, they are accepting that challenge.

If the DM doesn't want to deal with the potential issues/hassle, the DM can also simply tell the player "No, you can't play that race."

pretty sure it was not, but rather they wanted to just accept the dragonborn and treat them like any other customer

Or at least they were saying it's up the DM how that race (i.e. dragonborn in this case) is treated by the bartender.

The bartender could be fearful, suspicious, curious, friendly (maybe his life was saved by a dragon before?), or whatever. The general anomosity against a race by the common folk doesn't imply every commoner has to follow it.

I'm sure (or hopeful anyway) you agree with that, as well.

Do what works for your campaign of course, but I would be concerned with how other players could react whether or not they voiced concerns.

To clarify, do you mean how other players would react to those restrictions (they are established beforehand, like in your own game), or how the other players' characters might react?

 

[Remathilis]

I have an interesting adjacent question:

Those DMs who run carefully curated worlds: Do you go through the Monster Manual (or any other monster book) and categorically decry "this monster does not exist in my world"? Not, "I haven't decided" or any other non-committal answer, I mean "this does/doesn't categorically exist." Because I think the majority of DMs wouldn't go through the MM on Day One and whittle down their options. A particular monster might not exist in the area the PCs are in currently (or conversely, the "known world") but I don't think many DMs never-say-never. Because they don't want to limit their options when it comes to telling stories/using new threats. And most monsters exist in a Shrodinger's Box of "they don't exist until they show up in game"

Yet I imagine the same DMs have few qualms doing the same to PC options. To put it another way, if Dragonborn were just a monster in the Monster Manual, I imagine most DMs would not consider banning them outright on day one. However, being the PHB, they get a Day One pass or ban. The Players live in a world of black and white hard-defined options, the DM gets to play around in the gray "maybe this exists, I haven't decided yet."

 

[Maggan]

I'm beginning to be at a loss when it comes to what position people are taking in this discussion.

It seems to me that I'm getting responses saying "well you don't have to have dragonborn be shunned" as if I hadn't already said so myself in several posts, even giving examples from my own games.

In our group we have five GMs. It's not very common I believe to have so many GMs champing at the bit to run something. So we rotate and once the time is up the next GM says "I want to run this" and the rest of us say "sounds like fun, what's the setup" and then the GM explains what the premise is and then we create PCs and play. At the moment we're playing Alien with pregens (without dragonborn, I haste to add). Before that it was OSE with free choice of race from the rules (don't know if dragonborn are in there, we chose human, elf, half-elf and dwarf, and my human barbarian died at level 3 so I replaced him with a half-elf paladin purely for the darkvision), and before that Pirate Borg, CY_BORG and Forbidden Lands.

And we are having loads of fun.

To me this isn't about dragonborn, that's just an example of a GM excercising her agency over her game world. Want to run a game without humans? Go for it! Want to run a game without gods? Rock on! Want to play a game where there is no threat and everything is fine and dandy? It's a lot of fun I've done it myself and the players freaked out because they thought something sinister was going on! Want to play an intrigue-heavy murder plot involving the Emperor of the realms and his advisers but no monsters? Hell, I'll join just tell me what advisor to play! No magic? Cool I'll play a rogue! Play in a Conan campaign with a pulp feel and only human PCs? Sounds like fun! Historical pirates? Yar maties, set sail! Undead pirate shenanigans? Even more awesome! Just a dungeon delve? ... not really my cup of tea, but if the GM wants to run it I'll say yes!

I'll gladly accept a GM's set of limits for the game she wants to run. And my players do the same, otherwise it seems to me we'd all be playing the same freaking game over and over and over again.

 

[Oofta]

I have an interesting adjacent question:

Those DMs who run carefully curated worlds: Do you go through the Monster Manual (or any other monster book) and categorically decry "this monster does not exist in my world"? Not, "I haven't decided" or any other non-committal answer, I mean "this does/doesn't categorically exist." Because I think the majority of DMs wouldn't go through the MM on Day One and whittle down their options. A particular monster might not exist in the area the PCs are in currently (or conversely, the "known world") but I don't think many DMs never-say-never. Because they don't want to limit their options when it comes to telling stories/using new threats. And most monsters exist in a Shrodinger's Box of "they don't exist until they show up in game"

Yet I imagine the same DMs have few qualms doing the same to PC options. To put it another way, if Dragonborn were just a monster in the Monster Manual, I imagine most DMs would not consider banning them outright on day one. However, being the PHB, they get a Day One pass or ban. The Players live in a world of black and white hard-defined options, the DM gets to play around in the gray "maybe this exists, I haven't decided yet."

There are hundreds of monsters, why would I go through and say "These don't exist?" Especially when many, such as undead, are just different aspects malevolent spirits can take on. A zombie and an ogre zombie are still just zombies.

On the other hand I have very few monstrous humanoids in my world and by and large they keep to distinct regions. But yes, I limit the number of unique monsters I have. The vast majority of enemies the PCs will face are one of the common races I allow them to play.

 

[Maggan]

Those DMs who run carefully curated worlds: Do you go through the Monster Manual (or any other monster book) and categorically decry "this monster does not exist in my world"?

Nope.

If I plan adventures myself I pick the ones that fit my idea of the world and the adventure. If I run an adventure I bought I make substitutions as I read through and plan the adventure to fit my idea of the world and adventure.

I'm open for most any monsters to exist in my campaign worlds. I'm not open to allowing all of them to be PCs (which is not what you were saying, it's just me trying to clarify my position).

 

[ezo]

Do you go through the Monster Manual (or any other monster book) and categorically decry "this monster does not exist in my world"?

Yes, though I know I am in the minority. Many monsters I don't like: some I think are silly, others stupid, others I might homebrew, but many I remove because they are too alien for my tastes.

As for other DMs, I certainly don't fault any who haven't done this. Afterall, there are many more monsters than PC races to review, and it takes a lot of time. Mine have been fairly establish for a few decades now, so I only need consider "new" monsters with added books.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I have an interesting adjacent question:

Those DMs who run carefully curated worlds: Do you go through the Monster Manual (or any other monster book) and categorically decry "this monster does not exist in my world"? Not, "I haven't decided" or any other non-committal answer, I mean "this does/doesn't categorically exist." Because I think the majority of DMs wouldn't go through the MM on Day One and whittle down their options. A particular monster might not exist in the area the PCs are in currently (or conversely, the "known world") but I don't think many DMs never-say-never. Because they don't want to limit their options when it comes to telling stories/using new threats. And most monsters exist in a Shrodinger's Box of "they don't exist until they show up in game"

Yet I imagine the same DMs have few qualms doing the same to PC options. To put it another way, if Dragonborn were just a monster in the Monster Manual, I imagine most DMs would not consider banning them outright on day one. However, being the PHB, they get a Day One pass or ban. The Players live in a world of black and white hard-defined options, the DM gets to play around in the gray "maybe this exists, I haven't decided yet."

Sort of. I definitely have decided that several of them do not exist and have altered others to better fit the setting. But yes, some probably exist in nebulous "I decide later" category, especially as they keep adding new ones.

The process is not that dissimilar to how I deal with the PC species. Some of them I know definitely do not exist, whilst nonexistence of some others might be more tenuous. But it is not that no new PC species could ever be added.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I have an interesting adjacent question:

Those DMs who run carefully curated worlds: Do you go through the Monster Manual (or any other monster book) and categorically decry "this monster does not exist in my world"? Not, "I haven't decided" or any other non-committal answer, I mean "this does/doesn't categorically exist." Because I think the majority of DMs wouldn't go through the MM on Day One and whittle down their options. A particular monster might not exist in the area the PCs are in currently (or conversely, the "known world") but I don't think many DMs never-say-never. Because they don't want to limit their options when it comes to telling stories/using new threats. And most monsters exist in a Shrodinger's Box of "they don't exist until they show up in game"

Yet I imagine the same DMs have few qualms doing the same to PC options. To put it another way, if Dragonborn were just a monster in the Monster Manual, I imagine most DMs would not consider banning them outright on day one. However, being the PHB, they get a Day One pass or ban. The Players live in a world of black and white hard-defined options, the DM gets to play around in the gray "maybe this exists, I haven't decided yet."

Well, monsters get introduced into the world at the DM's discretion, if and when the DM happens to stumble across them. PC available races get introduced into the world as soon as a player picks one from the list the DM makes available at the outset of the campaign. I think that would be the key difference that negates the point you're trying to make here.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I have an interesting adjacent question:

Those DMs who run carefully curated worlds: Do you go through the Monster Manual (or any other monster book) and categorically decry "this monster does not exist in my world"? Not, "I haven't decided" or any other non-committal answer, I mean "this does/doesn't categorically exist." Because I think the majority of DMs wouldn't go through the MM on Day One and whittle down their options. A particular monster might not exist in the area the PCs are in currently (or conversely, the "known world") but I don't think many DMs never-say-never. Because they don't want to limit their options when it comes to telling stories/using new threats. And most monsters exist in a Shrodinger's Box of "they don't exist until they show up in game"

Yet I imagine the same DMs have few qualms doing the same to PC options. To put it another way, if Dragonborn were just a monster in the Monster Manual, I imagine most DMs would not consider banning them outright on day one. However, being the PHB, they get a Day One pass or ban. The Players live in a world of black and white hard-defined options, the DM gets to play around in the gray "maybe this exists, I haven't decided yet."

the thing is, species choice is a player facing option, if the GM is going to curate they pretty much need to decide if a species option is going to included before the players get involved much so that they don't backpedal and remove choices the players thought they had, meanwhile a drake or a hobgoblin can sit in shrodingers beastiary the entire campaign and not matter that it hasn't been for certain decided if it's going to exist in the campaign.