D&D 5E We Would Hate A BG3 Campaign

[Divine2021]

Moonrise Towers would be tricky to do as well, if done right. Mixture of dungeon crawl and massive set piece battles. Would need a really good DM.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Also, sounds like you'll enjoy 5.5e then. Warlock pacts are being turned into invocations. You can, in theory, have a blade-tome-chain-talisman warlock if you want! (At level 5, anyway.)

Interesting! I didn't know that. I made it to work this way in my rewrite of the warlock class, couple of years ago.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I wish you could change the settings to exclude nudity and sexuality if you wish…along with graphic violence.

(So my kids could play too). Ah well…

I'm pretty sure that there is a setting for disabling the nudity. I don't think there is one for violence and the blood splatters though.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I thought the absence of Gnomes from 4e D&D was supposed to be one explanation for some people's dislike of it. If that's true, presumably the same thing could be true if Gnomes are absent not due to a publication decision but due to a worldbuilding decision.

Sorry, just noticed this.

What I was saying here was that if a DM removes... let's say Gnomes... from the game world, or at least from the list of playable races available in that game world, is this on the level of a crime, one which is serious enough to result in players abandoning that DM's game wholesale? To the point where there are no players left to play the game?

 

[MNblockhead]

If you are going to invoke that fact that EGG allowed any race for PC's in his early games; Then you have to acknowledge the opinion he formed about allowing any race for PC's based on those early experiences.

Gygax had a lot to say about this on p.21 of the AD&D DMG:

'The Monster as a Player Character'

Some cliff notes:

D&D came out in 1974, by 1979 EGG certainly came to believe that GM's imposing restrictions on player character options for their campaigns was an absolutely acceptable practice.

Further, it is dangerous to hang your argument on "what Gary did." His strongly worded opinions where all over the place, depending upon the time in his career, his audience, and the game's and his personal maturity. He could be a larger than life personality that led to lots of good sound bites, but you can find EGG quotes to support nearly any position.

About the only consistent thing about EGG, and how I like to best remember him is: “I would like the world to remember me as the guy who really enjoyed playing games and sharing his knowledge and his fun pastimes with everybody else.”

 

[ezo]

On the other hand, you do have to take into consideration your dinner guests preferences. You can't serve the same menu to a vegan, a Muslim, or someone with food allergies and expect them all to have a good time. The "take it or leave" attitude only works when you don't care if people don't attend.

No. The menu is premade and they know it before they accept the invitation.

If they show, knowing what is available, and demand something that isn't available, that is on them.

That does beg the question of what the expectation of D&D actually is.

No one expects Jedi in Star Trek because Jedi aren't a part of the Trek franchise. However, dragonborn are a part of the D&D franchise. It's not unreasonable to expect that they exist. The problem exists when D&D is used to play games other than D&D with them and is used as a Generic d20 Fantasy RPG. When people mean to say "I'm using the 5e rules to play an Arthurian game" but end up saying "I'm playing D&D" instead.

To me, the closer equivalent is running Star Trek but not having Vulcans as a playable option. You might have some interesting idea cf the Kelvin timeline where Vulcan was destroyed, but for a lot of people Vulcans are intrinsic to Trek and people will expect them to be there.

Dragonborn are not anywhere near the established level of inclusion (so to say) for D&D that Vulcan are for Star Trek.

Even in 5E, Dragonborn (and others) are separated as an "uncommon" race. Also, many people who play 5E come from 1E and 2E, where Dragonborn were NOT widely spread or used by most gamers IME. Not nearly ever player had Dragon Magazine or other materials where some form of "Dragonborn" were introduced.

(To be clear, I don't personally have much issue with Dragonborn in my games, but the chromatic ones do have to deal with the stigma of the evil chromatic dragons, etc., it just continues to the race used in these discussions...)

 

[pemerton]

Sorry, just noticed this.

What I was saying here was that if a DM removes... let's say Gnomes... from the game world, or at least from the list of playable races available in that game world, is this on the level of a crime, one which is serious enough to result in players abandoning that DM's game wholesale? To the point where there are no players left to play the game?

Well, as I've posted a few times upthread already, I don't think normativity is applicable here, and so a fortiori don't think that crime is!

But if a player won't play 4e because it has no Gnomes, then presumably they may not want to play in a GM's world that has no Gnomes. Whether that will mean there are no players left might depend on (i) how Gnome-crazy the local crew are, and (ii) how influential the Gnome-crazed ones are over the others.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

What the 5e PHB has to say on Dragonborn.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Well, as I've posted a few times upthread already, I don't think normativity is applicable here, and so a fortiori don't think that crime is!

But if a player won't play 4e because it has no Gnomes, then presumably they may not want to play in a GM's world that has no Gnomes. Whether that will mean there are no players left might depend on (i) how Gnome-crazy the local crew are, and (ii) how influential the Gnome-crazed ones are over the others.

Right! Some might be so heavily into Gnomes that they must leave the table. Others would not. So a game is still happening. The Gnomish are free to find a Gnome-friendly game, form their own game or join this game, despite its lack of Gnomes.

Having parameters to a game world gives it form, to some. That form fires the imagination of that some. Others are perfectly happy with less form than that for their game world. Both methods are acceptable.

 

[Micah Sweet]

View attachment 342926

What the 5e PHB has to say on Dragonborn.

I'm sure WotC would love to pretend this sidebar doesn't exist, and I don't expect it to be there in any form in the new not-edition. But they can't erase it from 5e!