Wealth system - what would be the impact of..

[Plane Sailing]

What would be the impact of removing the 'automatic' 1 wealth loss when buying anything that is DC15 or more purchase DC (and likewise removing the 'automatic' 1 wealth gain when selling anything of DC15 or more?

I've been trying to work out why this element is 'hard coded' into the d20 modern wealth system and I can't quite see it at the moment. I'm wondering if I'm missing something important, and perhaps someone here can help me get it sorted.

Regards,

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Hrm. I'm not "in the know", of course, but here's my thought:

Most of the "adventure" stuff costs DC 15 or more. I.E. Weapons, Armor, Explosives, and the like.

So I think part of it might be keeping somebody from getting to +15 Wealth and buying an infinite number of grenades or handguns or other disposable battle item. It makes sure that buying a handgun always has an "Opportunity Cost" associated with it.

It also adds some definition to the buying/selling angle. Eventually at the outer ends, you're unable to buy or sell anything that appreciably changes your Wealth bonus. That actually happens rather quickly unless you like games where people are buying magical items or tanks or the like, and you're throwing around millions in Wealth bonus.

It might be perfectly fine if your plan is to play Richie Rich Saves The World or Doc Savage or something of the like.

--fje

 

[billking]

What would be the impact of removing the 'automatic' 1 wealth loss when buying anything that is DC15 or more purchase DC (and likewise removing the 'automatic' 1 wealth gain when selling anything of DC15 or more?

I've been trying to work out why this element is 'hard coded' into the d20 modern wealth system and I can't quite see it at the moment. I'm wondering if I'm missing something important, and perhaps someone here can help me get it sorted.

The idea is that something with a purchase DC that high is relevant enough to someone's income that buying it drains your resources significantly (giving you less wealth to play with) while selling it increases your resources (giving you more to play with).

I don't like that penalty either. The way I look at it, someone who is ridiculously rich isn't going to have their fortune noticibly decreased just because they bought a Glock.

A better system, if you ask me, is:
1-5 points higher than current Wealth bonus: 1
6-10 points higher than current Wealth bonus: 1d3 (d6 halved, round up)
11-15 points higher than current Wealth bonus: 1d6
16 or more points higher than current Wealth bonus: 2d6

I also consider Wealth checks to be an attempt to shop for items rather than simply purchase them. After the check is made, the player is told "Out of the sellers you found offering the item, the best price you could get was..." and then I roll what the penalty to the Wealth bonus is. The player can take it or leave it.

 

[genshou]

It's to make sure that buying really expensive items always costs something. I suggest revised the system as follows.

Every time a character with a Wealth score of 15 or greater purchases an item of DC 15+ or sells an item with a resell value (3 lower than its standard PDC) of 15+, but this value is less than or equal to their current Wealth bonus, look up the item's monetary value on page 204 of the core rulebook. As the character purchases these items, add/subtract the actual monetary values of the items and keep a tally of it on your character sheet.

Now add 10 to your character's Wealth score and calculate it as a Purchase DC, then do the same for your Wealth +9 and your Wealth +11. Subtract Wealth +11 from Wealth +10 (resulting in a negative number) and record this as your sell point. Subtract Wealth +9 from Wealth +10 and record this as your buy point. if your current Wealth changes, recalculate your sell point and buy point appropriately.

Now, when you add together your totals from purchasing these items, or your current Wealth score changes, anytime your tally reaches a positive modifier greater than or equal to your buy point, subtract your buy point from the total on the tally and decrease your Wealth score by 1. Anytime your tally reaches a negative modifier less than or equal to your sell point, add your sell point value to the total on the tally and increase your Wealth score by 1. This system makes for a lot more bookkeeping than is standard for the spirit of the Wealth system rules, but it has the elegance of a system that makes the purchase of a Colt M1911 and the purchase of four private jets have the impact they should on your Wealth at extremely high bonuses (ie enough that you can buy 4 private jets and only take a -1 to Wealth), instead of draining an identical amount of your resources.

What do you think?

 

[Aussiegamer]

Dump the wealth system, it has many problems and fails to be good for RP.

 

[genshou]

Dump the wealth system, it has many problems and fails to be good for RP.

Please direct this kind of comment to a thread about such, as I'm tired of seeing these sorts of complaints pop up elsewhere. if you have something to discuss about the actual topic of this thread, however, such as sharing your opinion on my idea above, I'd love to hear it.

Now if you can list
1) Why you don't like the Wealth system and
2) What system you would suggest for covering all the aspects of modern economics and finance that won't devote entire game sessions to accounting,
then I'll be glad to see such. But please don't jump into a conversation with this kind of thing when we're all trying to have a good discussion about fixing one part of the ruleset you don't like. It's not good netiquette and grates on peoples' nerves.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Dump the wealth system, it has many problems and fails to be good for RP.

Aussiegamer, this is an inappropriate post. Feel free to start another thread with why you hate the wealth system, but interjecting in this (or any thread) with "I hate it, it sucks" is inappropriate.

Regards

 

[Plane Sailing]

Thanks for the various input all you other guys. I'm especially good to see HeapThaumaturgist, since you've written some very perceptive stuff about the wealth system in the past.

It supports my broad suspicion that the DC15 seems to be hard coded in to prevent one wealthy PC purchasing guns for his entire squad or some such tomfoolery. I think I'll probably ditch that rule and just say that the DC is for buying one instance of an item, multiple instances at the same time have a higher purchase DC. e.g. a crate of rifles is a higher wealth check than a single rifle; but you only have to search and make the wealth check once, rather than spend weeks (potentially) sourcing each rifle individually. This seems believable to me - I could imagine someone with a salary that allowed them to purchase a gun each month without thinking about it, but if he wanted to buy a dozen guns at wealth he would be tightening his belt a little after that. Plus for the billionaires out there the dozen guns make as little dent in their finances as the single gun does.

Ta,

 

[genshou]

Thanks for the various input all you other guys. I'm especially good to see HeapThaumaturgist, since you've written some very perceptive stuff about the wealth system in the past.

It supports my broad suspicion that the DC15 seems to be hard coded in to prevent one wealthy PC purchasing guns for his entire squad or some such tomfoolery. I think I'll probably ditch that rule and just say that the DC is for buying one instance of an item, multiple instances at the same time have a higher purchase DC. e.g. a crate of rifles is a higher wealth check than a single rifle; but you only have to search and make the wealth check once, rather than spend weeks (potentially) sourcing each rifle individually. This seems believable to me - I could imagine someone with a salary that allowed them to purchase a gun each month without thinking about it, but if he wanted to buy a dozen guns at wealth he would be tightening his belt a little after that. Plus for the billionaires out there the dozen guns make as little dent in their finances as the single gun does.

Ta,

Hmm, this brings up a problem with the consistency in the idea I suggested. I'll work on it later this morning; I'm tired and 2 hours of sleep sounds nice at this point.

Edit: updated my system above with rules that I think make a lot more sense than what I had before. Someday I'll include examples to illustrate my system.

 

[hobgoblin]

Dump the wealth system, it has many problems and fails to be good for RP.

hmm, is it the same person that posted a replacement system for wealth on the wizards forum?