weapon focus daggers and sorcerers

[tgwg]

if a sorcerer uses daggers as his implement does he get the bonus to damage from weapon focus. the text from weapon focus doesn't say he needs to use the dagger as a melee attack or ranged attack.

also do parrying daggers count as "daggers" for the purpose of the sorcerer's implement proficiency?

 

[Destil]

Yes, you get the bonus from dagger related feats when using a dagger as an impalement. Saying something like 'weapon attacks' or 'melee attacks' would indeed be where any limitation would come from.

No, sorcerers have 'dagger' as an implement, which is a specific weapon. A parrying dagger is not a dagger. In general the rules either refer to a class of weapons 'Light Blades' or specific weapons 'dagger and rapier'.

 

[Nifft]

Yep, but note that there is a way to get Parrying Daggers as an implement: you just need to take Arcane Weapon Proficiency (Light Blades) -- courtesy of the Swordmage class -- and you've got access to all Light Blades.

Cheers, -- N

 

[tgwg]

so if we continue to think along these lines that would also mean that sorcerer's benifit from Daggermaster's (PHB 127) "Dagger Precision" as well wouldn't it?

 

[Nifft]

so if we continue to think along these lines that would also mean that sorcerer's benifit from Daggermaster's (PHB 127) "Dagger Precision" as well wouldn't it?

It's been a popular choice for the multiclassers, yes.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dice4Hire]

Wow, "multiclassers" is a lot nicer than the word I was going to use.

 

[mneme]

Wow, "multiclassers" is a lot nicer than the word I was going to use.

Also more accurate. Going Sorceror->Daggermaster isn't a munchkin thing, just a particular strategy (and one with signficiant costs, as you have a lower hit/damage on your Daggermaster powers than you would with an Arcane class). You can't really look at someone's build choices and decide whether they're a muchkin (or other nasty word about power-gamers) or not; it's a playstyle thing.

 

[CovertOps]

No, sorcerers have 'dagger' as an implement, which is a specific weapon. A parrying dagger is not a dagger. In general the rules either refer to a class of weapons 'Light Blades' or specific weapons 'dagger and rapier'.

I find this unclear only because Character Builder does not agree with you. Make a rogue and pick up the feat for Parrying Dagger, add one and equip it. Go to a power where it breaks down your bonuses to hit and damage and you'll find that it's giving you the Rogue class feature +1 to hit with the Parrying Dagger. Parrying Dagger has it's own costs...it's only +2 proficiency in exchange for Defensive and it costs a feat. Beyond that it's either a bug in Character Builder OR they are both daggers.

 

[mneme]

CovertOps: It's a feature of Parrying daggers. I quote: "This narrow dagger features a specially designed guard that can deflect attacks. A rogue proficient with the parrying dagger can treat it as a dagger for the purpose of the Rogue Weapon Talent class feature."

So the fact that rogues can use it with RWT is a specific exception applied to parrying daggers, not a general "treat them as daggers for all powers and class features if you're proficient with them" (which is really what it should be, IMO).

 

[BobTheNob]

It's been a popular choice for the multiclassers, yes.

Cheers, -- N

Right up until the point that WOTC closes that door....come on April Errata!