D&D (2024) Weapon Mastery + Cunning Strike+ Battle Master

[Horwath]

I don't really see how having a fighter be able to have a +8 at level twelve would change the game. They would hit a little more often than the other classes, and their damage would increase by +3. Oh, and they would actually kick butt in athletics, like they should. Now, if you have a dex based fighter, that might cause more inflation than needed. But adding a few extra plusses seems like it would tamper down some of the complaints of the fighter not doing enough damage (even though, in reality, it is on par with other melee classes).

If you want to kick butt in athletics, take Skill expert for Athletics.
If you want to deal more damage, take GWM feat or Dueling fighting style.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If you want to kick butt in athletics, take Skill expert for Athletics.
If you want to deal more damage, take GWM feat or Dueling fighting style.

You haven’t outlined any problem with the proposal, though.

 

[Horwath]

You haven’t outlined any problem with the proposal, though.

bounded accuracy, there is certain amount of hit chance that is expected.
keeping ability scores in "normal" ranges, if you let one class have a "26", then all classes will want to. especially if it is at level 12.

honestly, I would remove ASIs completely.
What you get at level 1, is what you have, outside of magic bonuses and special high level class features(but I would limit that to +2 only).
also remove the +2/+1 at start, with every race having floating, it's meaningless.

Give everyone default array of:
18,16,14,14,12,10

or variant pointbuy:
8: 0pts
10: 1pt
12: 2pts
14: 3pts
16: 5pts
18: 8pts

pool: 22pts

instead of ASIs, if you want simple choice feats:

though: +2 HP per level(can be taken twice)
Skilled: +4 skills (can be taken any number of times)
Skill expert: +2 skills, +2 expertise (can be taken any number of times)
Tools of the trade: total of 8 tools, languages or weapons (can be taken any number of times)
Martial expert: gain 2 fighting styles
Fleet: +15ft move speed
Resilient: 2 saving throw proficiencies. can be taken twice.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

bounded accuracy, there is certain amount of hit chance that is expected.
keeping ability scores in "normal" ranges, if you let one class have a "26", then all classes will want to. especially if it is at level 12.

honestly, I would remove ASIs completely.
What you get at level 1, is what you have, outside of magic bonuses and special high level class features(but I would limit that to +2 only).
also remove the +2/+1 at start, with every race having floating, it's meaningless.

Give everyone default array of:
18,16,14,14,12,10

or variant pointbuy:
8: 0pts
10: 1pt
12: 2pts
14: 3pts
16: 5pts
18: 8pts

pool: 22pts

instead of ASIs, if you want simple choice feats:

though: +2 HP per level(can be taken twice)
Skilled: +4 skills (can be taken any number of times)
Skill expert: +2 skills, +2 expertise (can be taken any number of times)
Tools of the trade: total of 8 tools, languages or weapons (can be taken any number of times)
Martial expert: gain 2 fighting styles
Fleet: +15ft move speed
Resilient: 2 saving throw proficiencies. can be taken twice.

That sounds completely terrible, eliminating an avenue of customization for no coherent reason and to no benefit.

Bounded accuracy isn’t broken by one character having +1 higher than thier peers.

 

[Horwath]

That sounds completely terrible, eliminating an avenue of customization for no coherent reason and to no benefit.

Bounded accuracy isn’t broken by one character having +1 higher than thier peers.

customization is just moved to specific area, not broad like ability scores.
If you really want to be "smarter" later on, take proficiency+expertise in Arcana, History, Nature, Religion
If you want to be more charismatic, take proficiency+expertise in Deception, Persuation, Intimidation, Perform,
If you want to be more observant, cunning, there is Perception, Insight, Investigation, Survival

if you fix your Abilities to level 1, then that is your DNA, it's your natural talent in certain area, if you want to be better at certain things, there are proficiencies and expertise or fighting styles/HPs/saves.

if you want better scores, find magic items, or deity boons, consider raising ability scores similar to genetic engineering.

bounded accuracy is broken by +3, 20(+5) vs. 26(+8)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

customization is just moved to specific area, not broad like ability scores.
If you really want to be "smarter" later on, take proficiency+expertise in Arcana, History, Nature, Religion
If you want to be more charismatic, take proficiency+expertise in Deception, Persuation, Intimidation, Perform,
If you want to be more observant, cunning, there is Perception, Insight, Investigation, Survival

if you fix your Abilities to level 1, then that is your DNA, it's your natural talent in certain area, if you want to be better at certain things, there are proficiencies and expertise or fighting styles/HPs/saves.

Which again, sounds awful.

And also not how people work so maybe don’t try to bring science into it with talk of DNA. All the ability scores represent things you can get better at, barring a disability that restricts your potential (and even then, the individual likely just has potential at a lower scale, but still has room to grow).

It’s also just less fun, more importantly. I can see no benefit whatsoever.

 

[Horwath]

It’s also just less fun, more importantly. I can see no benefit whatsoever.

I dont know, how it's less fun?

I can get +2 to one ability or 2 skills and 2 expertise, doesn't the 1st one look more boring?

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I dont know, how it's less fun?

I can get +2 to one ability or 2 skills and 2 expertise, doesn't the 1st one look more boring?

Incrementally increasing overall effectiveness of a primary ability is satisfying to me. Not boring. I have all kinds of way the game tickles my fancy. Not everything needs a strict silo. If the option was between the two, would rather get +2 to my primary ability score that increases my effective success rate in any task that uses that ability, before I increase any non-combat skill that I might use rarely. I hate failing because of dice rolls a lot of the time. I want to get better at not failing.

 

[Horwath]

Incrementally increasing overall effectiveness of a primary ability is satisfying to me. Not boring. I have all kinds of way the game tickles my fancy. Not everything needs a strict silo. If the option was between the two, would rather get +2 to my primary ability score that increases my effective success rate in any task that uses that ability, before I increase any non-combat skill that I might use rarely. I hate failing because of dice rolls a lot of the time. I want to get better at not failing.

I agree with you completely.

That is why there needs to be lower cap to (primary) ability score so people do not need to chase it non-stop and to open up areas for other aspects of the character.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I agree with you completely.

That is why there needs to be lower cap to (primary) ability score so people do not need to chase it non-stop and to open up areas for other aspects of the character.

I like the top of natural mortal ability being a 20 score and +5 modifier. 20 is a magical number in D&D and feels right to me, and a +5 modifier correlates to 25% of 20, which is clear, easy math to help determine its impact on a d20 roll (which admittedly is very swingy for a resolution mechanic.)

I also like giving the player the choice to directly modify their starting scores regardless of the stat generation the DM sets for the game. Because different DMs use different stat generation (all kinds of variations of dice rolls, stat arrays, point buy pools, and more), giving the player the agency to have some control no matter the stat generation method, is important to me.

For instance, if the DM says roll 3d6 six times for stat generation and put them where you want them, I don't want an 18 off of a 3d6 stat generation roll to be the pinnacle of natural mortal ability. I want the choice of increasing it to 20 as part of character generation, or spreading it out to other abilities, and having the option to increase that 18 to 20 at later levels.