D&D General Weapons should break left and right

[CreamCloud0]

Umm, you do realize that Chinese chess exists right? There's like a billion or so people who play it? Shogi in Japanese. Dunno what it's called in Chinese. But, in any case, it's chess without bishops.

okay but they're not talking about 'chess without bishops', they're talking about 'chess with bishops that can move anywhere'

rules create restrictions and restrictions create situational puzzles which produce fun through the process of solving them within those restrictions.

 

[GreyLord]

Umm, you do realize that Chinese chess exists right? There's like a billion or so people who play it? Shogi in Japanese. Dunno what it's called in Chinese. But, in any case, it's chess without bishops.

Xiangqi.

Depends on what you define as a Bishop. Technically both Shogi and Xiangqi have bishops.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Ammo counting has it's place. Mainly in survival type of games where resource management is part of the fun.

Yup. Like how I choose to play most D&D style games (and most other traditional RPGs, for that matter). Not a waste of time. Part of the experience.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I have never seen a situation where running out of ammo did not result in annoyed player and an argument taking everyone out of the story. And it is hard not to take the player's side because while THEY may forget to track their arrows, the character they're playing would never do that and it directly ruins their whole fantasy by making their hero look incompetent as punishment for what, not wanting to do bookkeeping on your game time? This line of thinking leads to why D&D 3.5 felt more like doing taxes than playing.

First of all, what rational argument could there possibly be? "I ran out of arrows and want that not to be true?"

Secondly, your feelings about logistics being too boring to bother with are just that: your feelings. 3.5 felt that way to you. I appreciated the attention to detail and the realism that came with using an ammunition-based weapon that could run out of ammunition. You know, like they actually do if you fire it often enough?

 

[CreamCloud0]

So, in the interests of a more constructive direction, i ask: what would it take for each of you to start weapon juggling during battle?

For myself I have to say i think it would be already having most specialisation choices active to my character without needing to pick them, I don’t say this to be greedy but rather when you’ve only got one specialisation you feel like you’re missing out when not using it but with none you’ve got no reason to swap around, so if i can go from my sentinel+polearm master+slasher hamstringer control set to my big damage GWM+piercer set to my tanky defensive duelist+protection fighting style+shield master setup i might actually swap around what I’m using.

so like, digging a little deeper into the ideas of what i said here about integrating feats and fighting styles into the weapons themselves and something i saw someone said about broad and specific weapon groups, if each specific weapon property carried a more notable additional effect or action that all stacked into making weapons a bit more than just the sum of their parts? should there even be 'extra' unofficial weapon categories like how polearms are more a thematic classification covering spears, quarterstaves and 'heavy-reach' weapons?

the most simple property being 1-handed and 2-handed (for melee, ranged weapons would have separate properties IMO?), i'd give 1-handed an extra to-hit bonus while 2-handed would get a damage bonus on each hit, accuracy vs damage.

light weapons i'd give a +1 extra attack (in addition to their existing BA attack with a second weapon) play into death of a thousand cuts with small weapons concepts, heavy weapons i'd do something with auto-max weapon damage attacks, maybe repurpose HWM idea of the -5 penalty when you attack, so you're not really getting bonus damage just guaranteeing you're doing the most your weapon could've done.
versatile property doesn't have an individual bonus but offers flexibility between being 1-H or 2-H.

finesse weapons would just automatically have defensive duelist.

reach weapons i'll steal something from UA spear mastery: you can increase your range with that weapon by an extra 5ft for your turn by using a bonus weapon (honsetly i think quarterstaff, spear and trident ought to have the reach property listed as one of their versatile 1-H traits).

 

[Hussar]

There's a reason people didn't lug around spears most of the time. The one I own is 1.8m long, it's a big stick. Even on a sling, it's going to constantly snag on everything (and always threaten to poke someone nearby, not exactly fun) Do you want to walk (or sometimes even crawl) through confined spaces with a spear and a shield? Especially when there's no reason to expect any fighting (why would there be? -- it's just some old ruins, the worst thing that can happen is a bunch of vagrants hiding there, and diplomacy tends to work on those)

Can it all be hand-waived? Sure. But then spears/longer polearms either become utterly overpowered or have to be nerfed to make all other weapons viable, there's just no other way around it.

Sorry, but, who didn't lug spears around most of the time? Nearly anyone who was headed out into the wilderness took a spear, starting all the way back in paleolithic times all the way up to Roman era and, depending on the part of the world, right up to the advent of gun powder weapons. Carrying a spear was FAAAAR more common than carrying a sword. Swords are absolutely crap weapons against anything that isn't a human. Who would you put money on against a charging boar - man with sword or man with spear?

I'm going to point out that the specifics of your particular game are not terribly relevant here. Frankly, I don't really care what you are doing at your table, any more than you care about what I'm doing at mine.

Fighters almost always carry shields, even if they have swords, so, that's moot. And, there are 6 foot swords in D&D. Which is the same length as your spear. I can't imagine that it's all that much different trying to crawl around with a four foot sword on my hip or a six foot spear strapped to my back. They are likely both going to be rather difficult for crawling around in.

Just because a weapon might be inconvenient in one fairly specific location doesn't really matter all that much. Overall? Spears should be used FAR more in the game than they are. But, since spears suck and virtually none of the cool weapons are spears plus the fandom love swords FARRRR too much to ever give them up, that means that spears will virtually never be used by PC's.

I mean, good grief in forty years of gaming I cannot recall a single fighter type that focused on spears. Not one. That's how crap spears are in D&D.

 

[TiQuinn]

Just because a weapon might be inconvenient in one fairly specific location doesn't really matter all that much. Overall? Spears should be used FAR more in the game than they are. But, since spears suck and virtually none of the cool weapons are spears plus the fandom love swords FARRRR too much to ever give them up, that means that spears will virtually never be used by PC's.

Also, it's sword and sorcery fiction, not spear and sorcery fiction. That visual of the types of characters and the weapons they use in fantasy fiction or the movies matters.

 

[AlViking]

Also, it's sword and sorcery fiction, not spear and sorcery fiction. That visual of the types of characters and the weapons they use in fantasy fiction or the movies matters.

One of the few movies I remember showing spears as effective weapons was Troy, see below. Other scenes show spears being the main weapon of the armies, although of course they just run at each other in a loose group instead of having any battle tactics and formation but that's movie battles for you.

In any case start at about 1:30 for the actual fight.

 

[TiQuinn]

One of the few movies I remember showing spears as effective weapons was Troy, see below. Other scenes show spears being the main weapon of the armies, although of course they just run at each other in a loose group instead of having any battle tactics and formation but that's movie battles for you.

In any case start at about 1:30 for the actual fight.

Yeah, this is probably the main example that I would think of. (And it is a really cool fight.)

 

[Hussar]

Also, it's sword and sorcery fiction, not spear and sorcery fiction. That visual of the types of characters and the weapons they use in fantasy fiction or the movies matters.

Honestly? I think this is the primary motivation. Swords just capture the imagination to such an extent that basically no other weapons really exist.