Weapons

[Stalker0]

In reality, the spear is probably the best weapon ever made from an ancient standpoint. Its dirt cheap to make, terribly powerful against even thick armors, has reach so you kill yoru enemy before he kills you, and you can throw it for death at range!!

But the spear has one major drawback, its easy to break. This is something dnd doesn't model, so it has to compensate elsewhere. That...and swords are the fantasy stable.

 

[Sadrik]

I think those weapon stats are unnecessarily complicated, and your attempts at making things more realistic are incomplete, resulting in stats that are even more unrealistic than the 3E stats.

Things such as center of balance, leverage, slashing vs. stabbing, weapon weight and construction, etc are all incredibly important, but are not taken into account into your design. As such, your design is only focusing on a small part of the picture.

An example of this is how you compare a spear to a dagger on a stick. Certainly, in construction of the blade itself, this is true. However, the stick makes a huge difference in leverage and balance. If you compare the maximum speed and energy in which a person can swing a knife, and the speed and energy of a swinging spear-tip, you will find that the spear, due to a wider arc and greater impulse, will move a lot faster and carry a lot more energy.

Really, the best way to implement weapons is just to give them a very generalized set of stats, and try to avoid focusing too much on the specifics. Otherwise, you get bogged down wondering how to implement the countless variables of weapons, and start missing things.

I actually like the approach they seem to be taking in 4E. There is no indication that we are going to see a big difference in weapon stats, but more weapons are going to be differentiated by fighter talents and maneuvers. In other words, the weapons are going to be differentiated based on how they are used, rather than their basic features. I think that is the best possible approach.

A spear is effective because it does a couple of things that D&D does not have in its combat system. First of all it has reach so you can hit people farther away (in the system). You can hold someone back away from you, by keeping the pointy part in front of you which theoretically could translate into an AC bonus. But the most effective thing that a spear has is that it can make someone use their own momentum against themselves (set for a charge).

So what if it only does dagger damage, daggers can be very brutal, with using the opponents momentum and holding them at bay and hitting them before they can hit you- spear is very effective. Oh and one other thing that piercing weapons have over other types, they have a good chance of doing a lot of damage with a critical- puncturing organs and such where a slashing or bludgeoning is more of slash you real bad or break your bones kind of thing bad but not necessarily going to die from it.

 

[KingCrab]

Agreed, but one of the current things in 3e that imho been a problem with the weapon list is that certain weapons don't have a bonus to them- like crossbows. They should. Just like any weapon they should have a built in mechanical bonus. When a sword strikes harder because it gets bonuses added in from STR and technically a crossbow is all about making this thing fly fast with a lot of force behind it- it gets a little strange.

Also, from a mechanical point of view the crossbow rule ripples down to all other d20 properties and their non-str powered weapons: firearms.

I fully think that the damage of a crossbow quarrel would be almost non-existent if you threw it but using a crossbow it is actually effective.

Also adding in the size mod as a flat bonus makes it a lot simpler as you dont have to calculate the shift in dice etc. Large longsword does 2d8, 1d12 or 2d6??? No. It does 1d8+2+STR period.

The bonus for crossbows (which I've seen for certain RPGs with skill point systems) is ease of use. It can cost fewer skill points to become good with a crossbow since it doesn't take as much training comared to say a longbow. Since you have to spend fewer points, you can better increase your chance to hit.

This doesn't fit at all into D&D though and I don't how you'd give a crossbow a bonus. I guess 3.5 eventually had the crossbow sniper feat, since it is probably easier to aim. Maybe some precision thing?

In any case, I'm happy that in 3.5 I do see a few weapons used. Partially it is because different classes have access to different things (if your druid needs a slashing weapon to cut down zombies, there aren't many choices). Partially because some weapons have builds designed around them (spiked chain). Partially it's because there are different things that are desriable to different players (some want a bigger crit range). There are a lot that aren't used, however. If 4ed can come up with a system where more of the weapons made sense to use, that would be a good thing.

 

[Gloombunny]

Oh and one other thing that piercing weapons have over other types, they have a good chance of doing a lot of damage with a critical- puncturing organs and such where a slashing or bludgeoning is more of slash you real bad or break your bones kind of thing bad but not necessarily going to die from it.

Stabbing through organs is a great way to make someone die three days later, but cutting off someone's arm or smashing their skull open is a better way to win a fight. The advantage of thrusting in combat is that it's faster and harder to parry, not that it hurts people more.

 

[SKyOdin]

Stabbing through organs is a great way to make someone die three days later, but cutting off someone's arm or smashing their skull open is a better way to win a fight. The advantage of thrusting in combat is that it's faster and harder to parry, not that it hurts people more.

That, that is so wrong that I was compelled to de-lurk just to correct you. In every description I have ever read or heard about real life combat and fighting techniques, I have seen the opposite: stab wounds kill faster because they penetrate internal organs. A stab wound to the heart, lungs, or kidneys will kill a man very quickly, since a large percentage of the blood in the human body is in these organs. A deep gash in the arm, not so fast.