Well, I might as well ask for some advice.

[Warden]

Ah, yes, and about the support ... I'm rather in a cleft stick there, too. I have enough material in my head for several dozen sourcebooks at least to back up and expand on the setting, adventure modules, etc. However, the problem is that I'm the only writer for the company at the moment, thanks to monetary constraints. So I have to decide if I want to spend all my time writing those sourcebooks, on the theory that I might make some money from them, or wait to see if I sell any of the main book while I use that time to do other work that will allow me to eat, wear clothes, and live indoors ...

It's been said before and is worth saying again. Campaign settings are a tough sell, particularly for PDF. My own publishing house is working on our own campaign setting and this is the kind of stuff that I worry about myself. But I'll be buggered if I can drop this project completely and it seems that neither can you. PDF sales can be disappointing, so there's only one cure for those blues: passion. If these ideas are in your head and you can't restrain them, then give in and work on more material. Type until your fingers fall off.

One thing that I've noticed is the lack of support for campaign settings. It's very easy to find a new setting's core book, but then to find anything else afterwards is rare. I find that I will actually take notice of a setting when I begin to catch various supplements proceeding it -- it gives the perception that the material is popular and there must be something to it. While this may seem like more work for less, I do think it's a factor and should be worth considering. Perhaps focusing your energy on new material rather than promoting something that has already been released (because your new material will promote that core book at the same time to anyone that hasn't bought it). You're not taking away from your core book because it becomes even more valuable to someone who might find the subject of a particular supplement to be interesting.

And all that stuff about the website and such is good too.

 

[Great Mastiff Games]

Warden: perhaps you're right there, it might be better to get more new material than just keep trying to promote the old stuff. Make sure the old stuff is available, and leave it at that.

Cergorach: good ideas but unfortunately, the 16,000 thing is a bit more complex than paying for a big wedding. But the beer can ring and the drunken captain will be filed for future use, because that's probably what will be used even once I have the money.

Exile: many thanks for the kind wishes and sentiments.

Wycen: thanks for the links, and also for putting in the link to that review. (By Jove, I should have thought of that )

Brooklyn Knight: thanks for confirming the public opinion.

Scribe Ineti: yep, that's true. Persistence usually pays eventually (unless you die of old age first ) ... and as Niccolo Machiavelli wrote: "It is better to act and repent, than to do nothing and repent."

Everyone: many thanks for all the input! Some of it is more useful than others, but there's none of it that's useless -- it's just a matter of degree. You've given me lots of resources, solid suggestions, and useful links, which are great for giving new options to me in trying to get going here. And you've given me encouragement too, which helps with the Will saving throws to continue with the project as well and which lower the DC of those saves by a few notches too.

Everyone: Furthermore, I slept on the matter, and in the morning ... inspiration! I now have a plan, a concept to work from. Don't know if it will work ... but if it doesn't, it won't be for lack of trying. But before I can start it, I need to get my website back up. In short, there are a few barks in the old Mastiff yet!

 

[Pramas]

Anyone who tries to break into publishing with d20 stuff now is in for a rough ride. There has never been a worse time, frankly. There was a point when distributors would gobble up anything with a d20 logo. Now, if you approach them and say you are a new company with a d20 campaign setting, they'll roll their eyes.

Settings can be a tough sell but there are ways to do it. Take a look at Paradigm Concepts, for example. You may hear more noise about other companies here on EN World, but Paradigm has been out there for years building up a grass roots following for their Arcanis setting with a very successful Living campaign in the RPGA. They have engaged gamers with their setting and have built up an extremely loyal following. Paradigm is pretty much the only d20 company that took organized play seriously from the get-go and note that they are still here and publishing while others have dropped out. I don't think that's a coincidence.

You must create demand on the consumer level then. If customers start asking for something, it'll get pulled through the channel. That means getting out and promoting the setting. Go to as many conventions as you can and run games that show off the unique features and coolness of your setting. Try to recruit other folks who'll do the same at other conventions, or run demo games at retail stores. Give away some free material and adventures on your website in support of it. The most important thing is to get peope playing in your world. Playing sells games.

 

[Great Mastiff Games]

Hmmm, RPGA... very interesting. Thanks for the tip!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Turjan]

The review on rpg.net makes the setting sound very interesting. Even more interesting is a detailled follow-up buried in the "Comments" section. I suppose, as a publisher you should not let questions like "does anyone know if/where this book is still available?" unanswered . Don't worry, I did this for you.

The lack of a functioning website is always a big minus for customers on the web, although I suppose that it is not really a viable business option to solely rely on internet customers.

Many people in this thread have already said that it's hard to break into a market where 500 sold copies are a big achievement, and even more so with a campaign setting. It's nearly impossible to describe a campaign setting in two sentences. I'm afraid, though, that the average customer does not read more than 2 short sentences (maybe even only one) in order to make up his decision whether a product is worth a closer look or not. To sum this up, it's impossible to successfully market a comletely unknown campaign setting (as opposed to a licensed theme) by itself if you are not WotC, White Wolf or Palladium.

There are lots of cool ideas in your setting, as I can take from the one (!) comment on rpg.net. I think that many of those tidbits make for marketable entities themselves, starting with the pdf market. It will be a hard task, anyway. It's the first time I ever heard of Fiery Dragon's Battlebox in this thread. I actually had to look it up at a vendor in order to get an idea what it was about (sounds like a console game to me ).

 

[Nellisir]

I'm a gamer and amateur designer/wannabe publisher, not a professional anything. So take my opinion for what ever you think it's worth.

I've never heard of Acrohelion either. Out of curiosity, I grabbed Dragon #325 (the most recent) and looked up your ad.

1) The ad's not for Acrohelion. It's for something called "Fist of Ghonn". The cover design is "eh", and the art, from what I can see, looks positively cartoony -- not at all like a serious professional fantasy accessory.
2) The first two paragraphs make it sound like an adventure.
3) The third paragraph calls it a 96-page sourcebook for the Black Summoners of Insarc, which IS good and useful information...except that the book is titled the Fist of Ghonn, which is confusing.

Ah: Apparently the title is Fist of Chond, Chond being a god. Can't read the title font.

4) The fourth paragraph gives me a little idea of what's inside, but not a heck of alot. And since I'm a DM that has a home campaign and doesn't buy adventures outside of Dungeon, the first two paragraphs are still scaring me away.

So.

I'm a big believer in building a brand. Nothing in the ad links this accessory to your core campaign setting, and it doesn't look like anything on the cover does either. Establish a distinctive look.

At almost $22 (including shipping and handling), you're cruising at the high end of 96-page sourcebooks, and I'd expect professional quality in layout, art, writing, and materials -- and the cover doesn't reassure me on that point.

Clarify the ad a little more. Is it an adventure? Is it a sourcebook? How much of it is useful in my campaign? Most people won't use your campaign setting. They might buy it, but they won't use it. That's just all there is to it. They're buying it for ideas or curiosity. I've got 9 campaign setting books on my bottom shelf alone (which holds the more frequently referenced books), and I've never run a published setting. Cut down on the adjectives and tell me what's really in there I can use -- what you call horrifying I might just call gross.

Halloween references make it seem dated.

At this point I'd check it out on pdf, but not in print, and I wouldn't buy it without more real information about what's inside.

Good luck!
Nell.

 

[Great Mastiff Games]

Well, Halloween references are indeed dated. However, that's what Dragon put in ... Instead of returning to the Acrohelion one... And good luck getting it changed once the magazine is printed .

Point #2 .... how the heck much information can I get into one 1/3 page ad? I mean, I'd include a full chapter-by-chapter rundown if I could, and if you know some way, please share it with me.

Point #3 ....

 

[Great Mastiff Games]

Natsu gusa ya
Tsuwamono-domo ga
Yume no ato

 

[Fester]

I just don't get it.

You've spent $12,000 in 11 months and you don't seem to have a product to show for it.

I mean, where exactly is this product for sale? I've looked, but I can't find out where. I found a review for it on rpg.net, but that was all.

Have you not considered that one of the reasons people have neither heard of it nor purchased it is because, for all intent and purpose, it doesn't exist? Even now, after having read this thread, I still can't find a single vendor that sells your product. Indeed, I can barely even find a mention of it.

So this begs the question of what, exactly, you've spent your money on? Advertising in Dragon and... ?? What? I mean, has this product actually been printed yet? You talk of a "re-print" happening in the next few weeks... but that makes no sense at all. A re-print suggests that you've been moderately successful, but we know that isn't the case. This is seriously confusing.

To be frank, I'd put things on hold for a while and re-assess your business plan and marketing strategy, because $12,000 is a lot to spend to achieve such poor results. I'd also spend a while reading about the rpg market, as this will help you identify the correct target audience for your product and how to best channel your resources.

Finally, I'd stop feeling sorry for yourself and start working hard to turn the fortunes of this product around. If it's any good, it may well find a market and it's amazing what can be achieved with a little prior knowledge and a lot of hard work.

 

[Turjan]

I just don't get it.

You've spent $12,000 in 11 months and you don't seem to have a product to show for it.

I mean, where exactly is this product for sale? I've looked, but I can't find out where. I found a review for it on rpg.net, but that was all.

Have you not considered that one of the reasons people have neither heard of it nor purchased it is because, for all intent and purpose, it doesn't exist? Even now, after having read this thread, I still can't find a single vendor that sells your product. Indeed, I can barely even find a mention of it.

So this begs the question of what, exactly, you've spent your money on? Advertising in Dragon and... ?? What? I mean, has this product actually been printed yet?

Well, I don't know where you looked, but a glimpse at the site of a not completely unknown online vendor yields this. Only 2 left in stock...