We're Going To Do Return to the Tomb of Horrors and One Player has Freaked Out!

[Rackhir]

Or perhaps one was the plucky comic relief.

You made me laugh out loud. I loved Galaxy Quest.

I have to weigh in that I see little point in taking a long lasting character into a module designed for killing PCs. I'm all for desperate stands against incredible odds, but I like to be facing things I have at least a chance of overcoming. I'm perfectly willing to go up against dangerous foes knowing that there are going to be losses. I was the only player in one game that wanted to go after the BBEG in "Heart of Nightfang Spire". But Tomb of Horrors is simply sticking your head in the noose. I remember reading over the original module and if Return to... is worse I don't even want to think about it.

The Demi-Liche is a perfect summation of this module. Yes, it is a relatively easy monster to beat IF you know all the tricks and weaknesses of it. However, most it's weaknesses and vulnerabilities are FAR from obvious or even logically deduceable (I think one had to do with destroying gems?) and if you don't know them it will completely wipe out a party. It's one of those classice "How the HELL were we supposed to know that?" sort of situations, that were so popular in 1e modules. In which the only sensible course of action was to simply go in the other direction.

 

[Seeten]

I say take clone, create one, imprint your sorc's personality on it, and send it in. If it dies, oh well. Go back to the real you. Or contingency teleport on taking damage or on a spell targeting you.

First, create a phylactery, hide it somewhere well outside on the Tomb, then go in? As a Lich?

Hire a stooge, cast a greater illusion on him, and send him in in your place?

 

[Bryan898]

I absolutely loved RttToH. Yes I took a character I had built from the ground up over a two year campaign into it, as did the rest of us. Though we died somewhere in the Fortress of Conclusion, it kept us on the edge of our seats in suspense the whole time. Few modules I've ever played in did that.

I wouldn't be scared of the module on reputation alone. Give it a shot first, maybe you guys are smart enough to get through most of the challenges presented. If things are going badly, then retreat and quit. However, if the DM is using the module as part of the story in his campaign, IIRC by the logical outcome of the module not stopping Acerack may mean the end of the campaign (unless the DM decides some other party defeated him).

I'm not at all scared of losing characters. Yes I've built them up with countless hours of work, but after they die guess what? You still have the memories of the character, but more importantly you get to create a new character and do it again!

 

[Altalazar]

I think TPK modules just aren't appropriate unless they are one-shots or you want to end a campaign with a crash and burn.

I'm a DM who believes in allowing the players to come across things that can wipe them out, so they know that sometimes they should be cautious - and avoid some things rather than charge right in. That said, a death trap, a smart group would just stay away.

I can see the fun of a module that is a TPK for a one-shot, assuming everyone knows that in advance and is just seeing how far they can get.

I don't think such modules are appropriate for mid-campaign.

Might as well have an ancient red dragon on level two of the Sunless Citadel.

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

It appears nobody even noticed my post.

Folks, RttToH isn't that bad. Really. My party manhandled it.

I don't get what you're so afraid of... i

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I perhaps have a different motive, a metagaming motive: I'd send my character in. I wouldn't care.....All of it's a game, and I'm wasting time if I'm not playing it.

Exactly. I'd play it in a heartbeat (and probably last that long). But I have a bag of dice and plenty of paper...and then a whole new set of adventures awaits my new character.

 

[BlackMoria]

Have the naysayers actually gone through the module or are they just basing their talk on what others have said.

A TPK in the RttToH is NOT a foregone conclusion.... nor is dying.

I played as a player in it and survived unscathed. Casualties in that case was about 50%. I DMed it (and people know me as a "take no prisoners" DM) and the party had about 66% casualties.

As a player playing through it a second time, I didn't metagame and didn't tell the other players what to expect (so they could 'enjoy' the challenges for themselves). The casualties were about 33% - because they were relatively clever players and somewhat optimized for battling undead based on earlier adventures in the campaign.

And, yes, in all three cases, the module was utilized as part of a full campaign.

I think many people are putting too much stock into the reputation of RttToH as a character meatgrinder. It has this reputation because the normal 'hack and slash' mentality types drop like flies in it. But if a party is more 'celebrally' inclined, makes good use of 'information gathering', and is somewhat optimized for going against undead, there is no reason that they can't prevail with minimal casualties and have a good time to boot.

If someone hauled it out and said 'who is game', I would be there in a flash..and with my campaign character, not some 'throw away' character. Bring it on...

My two coppers....

 

[Kae'Yoss]

It appears nobody even noticed my post.

Folks, RttToH isn't that bad. Really. My party manhandled it.

I don't get what you're so afraid of... i

Yours was the post about the twinked out characters of a much higher level than recommended, yes?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Let's hope he doesn't know about the Rule in Ravenloft 3e that undead are only destroyed by turning when they cannot run away. It's in the Ravenloft Campaign setting (the 3.0 book, I don't know whether they have kept it in the 3.5 Ravenloft Player's Handbook)

Hmm... he's using the converted AD&D module... I don't know if he has any 3E-specific Ravenloft material.

I certainly don't, so I wasn't aware of the rule...

-Hyp.

 

[Warrior Poet]

A TPK in the RttToH is NOT a foregone conclusion.... nor is dying.

. . . they were relatively clever players and . . . if a party is more 'celebrally' inclined, makes good use of 'information gathering', and is somewhat optimized for going against undead, there is no reason that they can't prevail with minimal casualties and have a good time to boot.

Excellent point. It's not a foregone conclusion, in general.

It is for me. I'm just not that clever a player. I love gaming, but I'm not the sharpest sword in the smithy!

Still, I think something Henry said really resonates, and speaks to the joy of the game, not the trepidation of chance. I've probably taken too few (healthy) risks in my life; here's a chance to take one that doesn't really have any horrific (real world) consequences! They don't call 'em "Adventurers" for nothing.

Still, I think you have to go into the module with Lt. Spiers' words from Band of Brothers in mind: "You're scared because you think there's hope. Private, what you have to realize is that you're already dead. And the sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll be able to function the way a soldier's supposed to . . . " etc.

It's a helluva module. I always thought the original Tomb was the ultimate killer dungeon. Then I met Return, and it makes the original look like a tea party. Cordell's design is awesome (in the old sense of the word).

I don't think that player should have to run it if he doesn't want to, because it's about fun for everyone, but there's no reason the rest of you can't take a break and go challenge it yourself! It's a helluva way to die!

Warrior Poet