Were the 80s really the Golden Age of D&D?

I'll leave it to Ryan to explain that number, but were I to guess I'd say it was based on the extensive survey data WotC collected circa 1998 or so, in preparation for the new edition.

For interested folks, I believe Erik is referring to this:

Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0 -- Wizards of the Coast


I noticed that WotC is now quoting 6 million, and have no clue where the additional 1 million gamers came from (except perhaps an extrapolation based on the time that has passed since the original survey).

Looking at the original results, the estimate was 5.5 million people played or had played tabletop RPGs in general. If one is going to report only one significant digit, the common thing would be to round up to 6.

Put simply, I don't have a tremendous amount of faith in that number, since it's obvious that no one surveyed everyone in the world and it's thus an extrapolation, or "best guess" based on other data.

Dude, the validity of taking a small sample to represent the population as a whole is fairly well established. If you are going to critique it, you can question how they chose their sample, reported, analyzed, and so on. But failure to survey the six billion people extant is not a strong knock against them.
 

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For interested folks, I believe Erik is referring to this:

Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0 -- Wizards of the Coast

Looking at the original results, the estimate was 5.5 million people played or had played tabletop RPGs in general. If one is going to report only one significant digit, the common thing would be to round up to 6.

I want to point out this Market Research was for the US, not any where else. The the 2.25 active gamers in the survey where all in the US. This does not give us a clear picture of Europe or any where else.

It also gives us an possible reason that common toy stores and department stores don't carry RPGs any more. The market share was just to small for the cost.
 

For interested folks, I believe Erik is referring to this:

Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0 -- Wizards of the Coast

Looking at the original results, the estimate was 5.5 million people played or had played tabletop RPGs in general. If one is going to report only one significant digit, the common thing would be to round up to 6.

A better question is how have these numbers changed over the last decade, since this late 1990's market research survey was done.

This would most likely involve doing another formal market survey today.
 

A better question is how have these numbers changed over the last decade, since this late 1990's market research survey was done.

This would most likely involve doing another formal market survey today.

I remember reading one of the WotC staff members saying that a recent survey commissioned by WotC found that the term/brand D&D had a well over 90% recognition rate. Can't give any more details as I don't recall what more, if any, was said.
 

I remember reading one of the WotC staff members saying that a recent survey commissioned by WotC found that the term/brand D&D had a well over 90% recognition rate. Can't give any more details as I don't recall what more, if any, was said.

Do you have a reference or link, where this was mentioned?
 

I *think* that it was around the time that they did the first survey in the spring, but beyond that, I don't.

Sorry. The dev didn't make any more claims beyond a "the name/brand/term D&D is very well known, a recent survey showed over 90% of people recognize it"-type statement. If I have time tonight I will try to see if I can find it.
 

I *think* that it was around the time that they did the first survey in the spring, but beyond that, I don't.

Sorry. The dev didn't make any more claims beyond a "the name/brand/term D&D is very well known, a recent survey showed over 90% of people recognize it"-type statement. If I have time tonight I will try to see if I can find it.

The 90% brand name recognition for D&D perhaps wouldn't be too surprising, amongst certain demographic groups. Though it would be better to see how exactly they got that figure.
 

From the document:
6% play or have played TRPGs (~ 5.5 million people)
3% play monthly (~ 2.25 million people)
That is a bit more reasonable; I thought the 6 million was how many played regularly.
8% play or have played CRPGs (~7.3 million people)
5% play monthly (~4.5 million people)
I think we can safely say that this number is much higher now, probably doubled or more.

4% play or have played MWGs (~3.7 million people)
2% play monthly (~1.8 million people)
I guess RPGs are (or were 10 years ago) about 50% more popular than MWGs. My guess is that MWGs have dropped a bit in popularity, but I have no idea if that is true.
Getting back to the people still playing the games, when asked what games TRPG players play monthly, the answers (multiple choices allowed) were:

D&D: 66%
Vampire: The Masquerade: 25%
Star Wars: 21%
Palladium: 16%
Werewolf: The Apocalypse: 15%
Shadowrun: 15%
Star Trek: 12%
Call of Cthulu: 8%
Legend of the Five Rings: 8%
Deadlands: 5%
Alternity: 4%
GURPS: 3%
A few surprises for me here: The popularity of Palladium games (almost a quarter of D&D?!); the lack of Mage on this list; the relative unpopularity of GURPS, considering all of the supplements out there.

Anyone want to make a wild guesstimate list of what these numbers would be now? The top ten or so RPGs currently being played with percentage of active gamers playing them? I'm guessing that Exalted would be #2.

Anyhow, thanks for posting that--I haven't read that study in years. Fun stuff.
 

You know, for anyone who had trouble using A-G in Traveller stats, you could always use the radical process of using the numbers 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16. That's what we did.

Eventually, I got used to it.

However, it continued to be a problem for some, so I tried that as well.

For the most part, things worked out OK, but for some, you'd hand them a rulebook or a photocopied bit of info and it resulted in continued confusion.

(I didn't feel like permanently marking up a rulebook for them, so...)

The point, though, is not that one can modify something to make it work- I bet its next to impossible to find someone running an RPG 100% RAW- its that the design decision to use hex was a quirk that turned into a speedbump. As it did for a few gamers of my acquaintance, it may have even contributed to a more widespread dissatisfaction with the game.

Instead of using hex, the designer could have used normal base 10, and used a symbol to keep the stats distinct.

The example given in the rulebook was a PC with a UPP of 777B77. In base 10, it could have been 7*7*7*11*7*7, and no confusion would have resulted.

(Yes, I realize this introduces more characters into the printing process, resulting in higher costs, which might have been a real concern. OTOH, the book itself occasionally uses phrases like "Any character with a social standing of B (11) or greater..." which adds even more characters to the process. Is it a wash? I can't say, and I'm certainly not going to track this character by character from Book 0 to Book 9.

Plus, they wouldn't have needed the "Intro to hexadecimal" portion of the book at all...)
 

A few surprises for me here: The popularity of Palladium games (almost a quarter of D&D?!); the lack of Mage on this list; the relative unpopularity of GURPS, considering all of the supplements out there.

I remember Palladium flying off the shelves when I lived in San Antonio and Austin, so I'm not surprised. Consider that it has certain mechanical elements cribbed from 1Ed/2Ed D&D- the D&D edition of the day- and it was easy to transition from FRPG to...well, another FRPG, plus a slew of various superhero, modern, Sci-fi, anime themed or sci-fant RPGs. KS's creativity can be quite seductive, and can sometimes make you forgive the wonkier mechanics.

Nor am I surprised by Mage's absence- IME, most WoD players preferred V:tM, almost to exclusion. A shame, really, because I thought Mage was really cool, and I almost never got to play it. It probably would have been bigger had the WoD games been truly compatible.

GURPS low number also doesn't surprise me. Even in SJG-ville (Austin), most people bought GURPS supplements as high-quality sourcebooks for other games. (Even in my group, which did some playtest for GURPS: V:tM, we primarily ran D&D & HERO, with RIFTS and GURPS tied for 3rd, plus a slew of other games like Mekton, Mechwarrior and other playtests.)
 

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