D&D 5E Whack-a-mole gaming or being healed from 0 hp

[KarinsDad]

Good spot. That's what I get for reading just the description of the item rather than checking the associated table.

We all do it. Some of us (cough, cough, looks in mirror), just do it more often than others.

 

[Lanefan]

Thinking about the whole whack-a-mole thing brought me to a rather absurd - but very possible in the run of play - place.

Most combats a PC party faces are with more or less run-of-the-mill monsters who don't have all that much going for them other than toughs and a trick or two. The rules as written support this sort of thing just fine.

But consider this: what happens when the PC party's opponents are in fact another adventuring party, who - just like the PC party - have sources of at-will in-combat healing and some tactical know-how? Barring some significant dice luck one way or the other the inevitable result is that the combat goes on for hours, if not forever (!), with most of the participants vacillating up and down between 0 h.p. and +1 as they get repeatedly healed and pounded; at which point we have arrived at madness.

Lan-"starting to wonder if the designers really thought this through"-efan

 

[pukunui]

The CRPG Dragon Age Origins used an Injuries system - any time a character dropped in combat, they'd incur a random injury that could not be removed through normal healing magic.

5e has a similar mechanic in the form of the optional Lingering Injuries rule in the DMG (though some things, like broken ribs, can be removed through normal healing magic). As I mentioned upthread, I'm doing this in my new campaign: drop to 0 without being killed outright and suffering a lingering injury!

 

[Fanaelialae]

Thinking about the whole whack-a-mole thing brought me to a rather absurd - but very possible in the run of play - place.

Most combats a PC party faces are with more or less run-of-the-mill monsters who don't have all that much going for them other than toughs and a trick or two. The rules as written support this sort of thing just fine.

But consider this: what happens when the PC party's opponents are in fact another adventuring party, who - just like the PC party - have sources of at-will in-combat healing and some tactical know-how? Barring some significant dice luck one way or the other the inevitable result is that the combat goes on for hours, if not forever (!), with most of the participants vacillating up and down between 0 h.p. and +1 as they get repeatedly healed and pounded; at which point we have arrived at madness.

Lan-"starting to wonder if the designers really thought this through"-efan

A rival party of adventurers would almost certainly be aware of these tricks, so they'd try to finish off any down PCs before they could be healed. The PCs, of course, should endeavor to do the same if they have any sense whatsoever.

IMO, you're much more likely to end up with a brutal and deadly encounter in this scenario.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

But consider this: what happens when the PC party's opponents are in fact another adventuring party, who - just like the PC party - have sources of at-will in-combat healing and some tactical know-how? Barring some significant dice luck one way or the other the inevitable result is that the combat goes on for hours, if not forever (!), with most of the participants vacillating up and down between 0 h.p. and +1 as they get repeatedly healed and pounded; at which point we have arrived at madness.

The first time anyone stands up after being dropped, the other team will coordinate all actions to guarantee that it never works again.

Also, nobody has at-will in-combat healing. All in-combat healing is limited.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The first time anyone stands up after being dropped, the other team will coordinate all actions to guarantee that it never works again.

Also, nobody has at-will in-combat healing. All in-combat healing is limited.

The Healer feat can restore you to 1 HP as often as you have healing kit supplies. That is at-will to a first approximation, given how cheap kits are.

 

[CapnZapp]

e) Don't bother with this. PCs do not drop often enough for this to matter. And using a cure spell or a stabilization check requires resources.

I would think this piece of advice was more suited to a party dropping at an alarming rate - they wouldn't appreciate (or survive!) any more hardships.

But kidding aside, yes, experienced adventures drop seldom.

But dropping seldom is precisely the reason dropping should be special, and not trivially fixed by a Healing Word.

A first level spell taking a bonus action to cast - I can't imagine a more trivial resource cost. Whack-a-mole indeed.

I dislike the notion monsters generally should continue attacking fallen foes. Dropping an adventurer should be enough, given that significant healing magic is an exception, not the rule. (That some foes, like stupid but hungry monsters should try to break off combat with its fallen prey not realizing sentient humanoids act differently than dumb herd animals, or especially cruel or vindictive individuals, is of course perfectly alright)

I especially dislike how the best strategy becomes not prevent allies from falling, since 1) any excess damage is wasted once you do fall, and 2) you only need a single hp of healing to be back at full capacity (suffering no disorientation, nausea etc), only having to grab your weapon (for free) and standing back up (for nearly free). And indeed, that 3) any more powerful in-combat healing is discouraged, since chances are a single hit will still wipe out all that healing, so why heal more than one hp - which leads back to reason 1) above.

So forgive me for not taking your advice. This thread is not for you.

 

[CapnZapp]

The first time anyone stands up after being dropped, the other team will coordinate all actions to guarantee that it never works again.

This is a good example of crappy justification of a poor rule.

Reminds me of a signature I've seen, something along the lines of "the first sign of a poor combat rule is when somebody suggests you take a ready action to counteract it."

In short, Saelorn: no, I don't want the monsters to change their behaviour to fix a poor rule.

I want people to generally leave downed foes alone (until they have won the fight, then they may eat them etc). Mostly to maintain a light and friendly atmosphere, but also to make the few enemies that focus on killing the fallen really stand out as wicked and sadistic.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thank you for all your suggestions.

I am personally focussed on the cost of healing, rather than slapping the downed hero with penalties.

Keeping your allies standing should be a more rational option than letting them fall. Of course, with throttled in-combat healing, an even better option is to quickly kill the opposition...!

Reaching 0 hp should NOT be a preferred way to soak large amounts of damage.

---

It seems from this thread one of the most straightforward alternatives is to readd negative hp to the game.

However, allowing high-level heroes to reach negative hit points in three digits feels absurd, since my main aim was to negate the whack-a-mole trivial heals.

So what do you say about setting the minimum hp to -20 instead of 0?

That way, you can still heal a fallen ally. You just can't use a 1d4 Healing Word.

Being downed still absorb much damage. But not the final points.

 

[Quartz]

My option e: when a character is reduced to 0 hp without being killed outright, they suffer a lingering injury. Yes, some (like broken ribs) go away with magical healing, but not all of them do.

Don't you think that's rather biased against the front-line types, who are most likely to go down?