James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Hooked on Psionics helped me, and it can help you too!
D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?
- Thread starter Smackpixi
- Start date
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Ok jokes posts aside, what I feel some DM's balk at is they don't want Psionics to just "show up one day". If it exists, it should be integrated into the campaign. There should be secret societies of psions (Elan, perhaps?), psionic monsters, psionic myths and legends, psionic items, the whole nine yards. If it doesn't have a clear origin, it needs to at least have legends about early psionics. Whether it be a gift from the gods, gem dragons, or a relic of ancient domination by Aboleths or Illithids.
And let's be fair, most campaign worlds aren't written with psionics in mind. Even the psionics lore of the Forgotten Realms is minor, and largely overshadowed by magic using cabals and nations. And if you have a home game, well, there's no room for these new powers unless you go to the trouble to make room.
So by and large, psionics can be rejected simply because it hasn't been integrated well into D&D. It's always been this optional, vestigial thing, that gets talked about sometimes, but rarely explored to the degree that magic has.
A given setting has a pantheon of Gods, but if psionics exists, it's squirreled away in a corner somewhere, like Sarlona in Eberron. And it doesn't help that psionics hasn't been core since 1e, always forcing fans to wait for a book to come out later, after the first few settings have been released (and after a new DM creates their own).
And in the case of long-running campaign worlds, the cyclical nature of how psionics will vanish at the start of a new edition, only to reappear later is particularly obnoxious. Sure, magic changes, but magic is always present. It never just disappears for years at a time!
So for decades, we have this rules element that goes dormant for long periods of time, then resurfaces later to say "surprise! psionics is back!" after DM's have either adapted to it's absence, or never had a chance to get on board with it in the first place. Of course there's going to be pushback.
I'm sure if you introduced Binders and Shadow Mages now, they'd get a similar treatment (or a free pass because it's still "magic").
And yes, I know, someone has been screaming ATHAS! the whole time they've been reading this post. Great, fantastic, so one campaign setting supports psionics. That doesn't help. It basically makes psionics as relevant to the D&D world at large as Dragonmarks.
And let's be fair, most campaign worlds aren't written with psionics in mind. Even the psionics lore of the Forgotten Realms is minor, and largely overshadowed by magic using cabals and nations. And if you have a home game, well, there's no room for these new powers unless you go to the trouble to make room.
So by and large, psionics can be rejected simply because it hasn't been integrated well into D&D. It's always been this optional, vestigial thing, that gets talked about sometimes, but rarely explored to the degree that magic has.
A given setting has a pantheon of Gods, but if psionics exists, it's squirreled away in a corner somewhere, like Sarlona in Eberron. And it doesn't help that psionics hasn't been core since 1e, always forcing fans to wait for a book to come out later, after the first few settings have been released (and after a new DM creates their own).
And in the case of long-running campaign worlds, the cyclical nature of how psionics will vanish at the start of a new edition, only to reappear later is particularly obnoxious. Sure, magic changes, but magic is always present. It never just disappears for years at a time!
So for decades, we have this rules element that goes dormant for long periods of time, then resurfaces later to say "surprise! psionics is back!" after DM's have either adapted to it's absence, or never had a chance to get on board with it in the first place. Of course there's going to be pushback.
I'm sure if you introduced Binders and Shadow Mages now, they'd get a similar treatment (or a free pass because it's still "magic").
And yes, I know, someone has been screaming ATHAS! the whole time they've been reading this post. Great, fantastic, so one campaign setting supports psionics. That doesn't help. It basically makes psionics as relevant to the D&D world at large as Dragonmarks.
RE: Magic vs. Psionics
Just finished reading "Lord Darcy", and thought it was kind of interesting (in a way relevant to this thread) that a big portion of the magic is stuff that feels psionic (and most of the rest is adjacent to it in an obvious way), is approached scientifically by those in the world (mathematics underlies a lot of it), and requires innate talent to use -- but it's called magic, viewed as being the truth of what was really behind things like witchcraft, and uses material components (although ones that seem to make sense in interesting ways).
Just finished reading "Lord Darcy", and thought it was kind of interesting (in a way relevant to this thread) that a big portion of the magic is stuff that feels psionic (and most of the rest is adjacent to it in an obvious way), is approached scientifically by those in the world (mathematics underlies a lot of it), and requires innate talent to use -- but it's called magic, viewed as being the truth of what was really behind things like witchcraft, and uses material components (although ones that seem to make sense in interesting ways).
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Historically speaking what we think of as "psionics" grew out of the work of mediums and spiritualists in the 19th and early 20th century. Since science was the language of the day, the supernatural effects they were "manifesting" were couched in scientific language instead of mystical language. From that we get parapsychology as an area of study and eventually science fiction writers using the pseudo-science of their day in their stories. That's why I don't really have a problem treating psionics as a form of magic - historically that's what it is.
(And "psychic phenomena" were all magic in the real world too - the same kind of magic that magicians and sorcerers had been doing throughout recorded history. Stage magic and con-artistry to convince people they had magic powers.)
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
The primal themes are mainly:
Earthy lands, like mountains, plains, etcetera, aka geomancy, but with a personal connection to specific places, often with unusual or prominent geological features, and perhaps with affinity to specific mineral phenomena like glass, marble, soil, steel, silver, mithril, salt, ruby, or so on.
Watery rains, rivers, lakes, aquifers, seas, oceans, etcetera, along with icy snow and glaciers, aka hydromancy, including cryomancy, with affinity with specific phenomena or places.
Airy weather, including atmospheric haze, such as misty clouds or smoky smog, and winds, aka aeromancy, with personal relationships with sky beings or specific phenomena.
Fiery plasma, namely the heavenly fire of sun, stars, and lightning, but also extending to the red-hot and white-hot gasses of flickring flames and forest fires, aka pyromancy, but including astrapemancy, and comprising the damage types of radiant, lightning-thunder, and fire.
Finally, planty vegetation, that forms relationships with vegetative habitats whether equatorial rainforest or arid desert, and perhaps specific species of plant or fungus, aka xulomancy, including the aspects of medicines, poison, and the many products deriving from plants, such as cotton and linen fabrics, paper and coal, incense and lumber.
A primal character concept should normally combine any two of the elements: earth, water, air, fire, and plant.
Earthy lands, like mountains, plains, etcetera, aka geomancy, but with a personal connection to specific places, often with unusual or prominent geological features, and perhaps with affinity to specific mineral phenomena like glass, marble, soil, steel, silver, mithril, salt, ruby, or so on.
Watery rains, rivers, lakes, aquifers, seas, oceans, etcetera, along with icy snow and glaciers, aka hydromancy, including cryomancy, with affinity with specific phenomena or places.
Airy weather, including atmospheric haze, such as misty clouds or smoky smog, and winds, aka aeromancy, with personal relationships with sky beings or specific phenomena.
Fiery plasma, namely the heavenly fire of sun, stars, and lightning, but also extending to the red-hot and white-hot gasses of flickring flames and forest fires, aka pyromancy, but including astrapemancy, and comprising the damage types of radiant, lightning-thunder, and fire.
Finally, planty vegetation, that forms relationships with vegetative habitats whether equatorial rainforest or arid desert, and perhaps specific species of plant or fungus, aka xulomancy, including the aspects of medicines, poison, and the many products deriving from plants, such as cotton and linen fabrics, paper and coal, incense and lumber.
A primal character concept should normally combine any two of the elements: earth, water, air, fire, and plant.
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Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
So, we have "weave" magic, namely arcane and divine, and "mind" magic, namely psionic and arguably primal.
The psionic and primal themes divide up neatly. Psionic has divination-teleportation, enchantment-illusion, force-flight, and healing-shifting. Primal has element-plant.
The themes of the psionic and primal sources are clear, but various class concepts can dabble. For example, the Druid class is primal expressing elements and plants, but its animal shifting and healing correlate psionic psychometabolism.
Perhaps less clear is where fey and shadow divide up with regard to the sources. As spirit worlds that are totally separate from the material plane, they would be nonanimistic. Possibly, fey and shadow might be inherently weave magic. Or perhaps they are inherently mind magic, where a shadow ghost is a disembodied mind or at least an aspect of a mind. Meanwhile fey charm and fate seem like psionic telepathy and prescience. The precise relationship of these fey and shadow spiritworlds to the material world, factors into what their magic sources they comprise.
Finally, because of their early monopolies over magic, the Wizard and Cleric classes are thematically all over the place. Should the arcane and divine sources divide up thematically?
The psionic and primal themes divide up neatly. Psionic has divination-teleportation, enchantment-illusion, force-flight, and healing-shifting. Primal has element-plant.
The themes of the psionic and primal sources are clear, but various class concepts can dabble. For example, the Druid class is primal expressing elements and plants, but its animal shifting and healing correlate psionic psychometabolism.
Perhaps less clear is where fey and shadow divide up with regard to the sources. As spirit worlds that are totally separate from the material plane, they would be nonanimistic. Possibly, fey and shadow might be inherently weave magic. Or perhaps they are inherently mind magic, where a shadow ghost is a disembodied mind or at least an aspect of a mind. Meanwhile fey charm and fate seem like psionic telepathy and prescience. The precise relationship of these fey and shadow spiritworlds to the material world, factors into what their magic sources they comprise.
Finally, because of their early monopolies over magic, the Wizard and Cleric classes are thematically all over the place. Should the arcane and divine sources divide up thematically?
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Oh yes, but that ship has sailed. You can't redefine what spells Clerics, Wizards, or Druids get at this point. Otherwise it won't "feel" like D&D to some people. I've noticed older players are very resistant to change, even if it's good change. They want their games to be just so, balance be damned. A Wizard who isn't weak and frail, but has access to every magic effect that isn't healing or controlling plants and animals fails the "smell test".
I'm surprised they can accept Cleric Domains letting them cast fireballs, to be honest. And Druids have always had a grab bag of effects that's loosely defined as "nature-y".
If you view magic as a pie graph, arcane and divine magic have huge slices, making it hard to figure out what they shouldn't be allowed to do, which has always been a big problem in Psionics design.
This can be seen in the names of some powers, where you get "effect x" with "Psionic" tacked onto it, in a very half-hearted attempt to make you realize this is somehow different than the spell the other casters use. This also leads designers to use parapsychological terms for Psionic powers, because even something like "Mind Thrust" isn't safe, as this link can attest:
dnd5e.wikidot.com
So again, the main problem with Psionics is defining what it is, and actually defining what it isn't, when so many "paranormal" effects are already spells in the other caster's playbooks.
Because, at the end of the day, if the Psion isn't doing something other casters can't (and can never do), what's the point of having them?
Cool flavor and neat mechanics?
I'm surprised they can accept Cleric Domains letting them cast fireballs, to be honest. And Druids have always had a grab bag of effects that's loosely defined as "nature-y".
If you view magic as a pie graph, arcane and divine magic have huge slices, making it hard to figure out what they shouldn't be allowed to do, which has always been a big problem in Psionics design.
This can be seen in the names of some powers, where you get "effect x" with "Psionic" tacked onto it, in a very half-hearted attempt to make you realize this is somehow different than the spell the other casters use. This also leads designers to use parapsychological terms for Psionic powers, because even something like "Mind Thrust" isn't safe, as this link can attest:
Mind Thrust (UA) - DND 5th Edition
dnd5e.wikidot.com
So again, the main problem with Psionics is defining what it is, and actually defining what it isn't, when so many "paranormal" effects are already spells in the other caster's playbooks.
Because, at the end of the day, if the Psion isn't doing something other casters can't (and can never do), what's the point of having them?
Cool flavor and neat mechanics?
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Both weave and mind share the same pie, with the same thematic spell effects. But they go about the magic differently.
The weave is more about recipies and symbolic ceremonies. The mind is more intuitive, visualizing an effect to manifest it (sometimes while within an altered state of mind), or attuning a feature of nature to rapport with it.
The weave magic is more technical. The mind magic is simpler, more personal.
Weave can do telepathy and telekinesis, and mind can do healing and fireball. Same pie.
But there are weave spells whose descriptions feel nonpsionic, if they are too piecemeal and fiddly, or rely on external ceremonial objects or on external creatures to do the effect.
For mind, for psionic and primal, any prerequisite material component is a nonstarter. Moreover, spells like Augury that requires a deck of cards or similar, or Magic Jar that swaps consciousnesses into a container, are too object-oriented. It feels more like tech.
Spells like Private Sanctum and Hallow, with lists of disparate situational effects to choose from, are too fiddly.
Spells like Commune or Contact Other Plane are too dependent on the external creatures - for them to do the magic instead of the mage.
Mind magic can do similar effects, but the spell descriptions feel different.
A psionic might have powerful telepathy across any distance and any plane, and can conceivably contact the mind (or thought construct) of a celestial or fiend, but there would be no fixation on them. It is fine when a primalist does Commune With Nature, but this is just a normal chat with any elemental, whether a tree, or a rock, or a thunderstorm, or a star. There is no ... dependency ... on these nonhuman persons. If a rock was there when something happened, the rock probably would know something about it. But if not, there is no reason to expect a rock to have any special information.
A psionicist can augur yes-no intuition, in other words, be "psychic", but there is no need for an object like a tarot deck. And even if the psionicist happens to enjoy the cartomantic technique, it neednt cost 25 gold pieces. And so on.
A psionicist could defend a space by imbuing ones own mind into the site, somewhat like personally haunting the place. A primalist could connect with the stones or waters of the place. But there is no fiddliness or gadgetry.
Then there are Bygbys and Mage Hand spells with floating hand puppets. Psionic telekinesis? Nope.
There can be primalists that attune fire and shoot Fireball - but there would be no bat guano ingredient.
Many spell effects overlap between weave and mind, but their spell descriptions feel different.
The weave is external and formulaic, whether recipes or symbols. More like programming.
The mind is internal and personal, whether visualization or rapporting with other minds.
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Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
The concepts of the feywild and shadowfell need more clarity. They actually are aspects of the material plane. This imminence is vital for the planar concepts to function meaningfully within the cosmology.
Sotospeak, these two "echo planes" are the "sounds" that are still part of the material plane. The echo planes are more than extra places to visit. They are part of the machinery of how the material plane works. Where the material plane is the realm of matter, the "echoes" refer the forces that entangle matter. So, gravity is an "echo" of a planet. The nuclear forces of material objects are also echoes, giving these echoes form and shape. To alter the force can and does affect the material object that generates it, albeit there are many forces at work that help give the object an overall stability and resilience. The echo planes and the material plane are mutually interactive.
Significantly, the spiritual influences that the material plane emanates are also aspects of these echo planes. So not just material forces like gravity, but also mental forces like telekinesis are part of the fabric of the echo planes. This "weave" of forces is what weave magic manipulates. The force of an individual mind is a personal weave, an aura of mental influence that the location of a mind inherently emanates. This personal aura also contributes energy to the cosmic weave in an impersonal ambient way.
The material plane is both personal mind magic (psionic and primal), and impersonal weave magic (arcane and divine).
Likewise, the fey and shadow are both personal mind magic and impersonal weave magic.
In other words, some fey eladrin are psionic, and some shadow ghosts are psionic. Anyone who is a mind has the potential to master the mental influences that ones own mind generates. The same rules that apply to psionic in the material plane apply to its echoes too.
There are defacto two kinds of ethereal plane, shallow and deep. The shallow ethereal is actually in the material plane.
Sotospeak, these two "echo planes" are the "sounds" that are still part of the material plane. The echo planes are more than extra places to visit. They are part of the machinery of how the material plane works. Where the material plane is the realm of matter, the "echoes" refer the forces that entangle matter. So, gravity is an "echo" of a planet. The nuclear forces of material objects are also echoes, giving these echoes form and shape. To alter the force can and does affect the material object that generates it, albeit there are many forces at work that help give the object an overall stability and resilience. The echo planes and the material plane are mutually interactive.
Significantly, the spiritual influences that the material plane emanates are also aspects of these echo planes. So not just material forces like gravity, but also mental forces like telekinesis are part of the fabric of the echo planes. This "weave" of forces is what weave magic manipulates. The force of an individual mind is a personal weave, an aura of mental influence that the location of a mind inherently emanates. This personal aura also contributes energy to the cosmic weave in an impersonal ambient way.
The material plane is both personal mind magic (psionic and primal), and impersonal weave magic (arcane and divine).
Likewise, the fey and shadow are both personal mind magic and impersonal weave magic.
In other words, some fey eladrin are psionic, and some shadow ghosts are psionic. Anyone who is a mind has the potential to master the mental influences that ones own mind generates. The same rules that apply to psionic in the material plane apply to its echoes too.
There are defacto two kinds of ethereal plane, shallow and deep. The shallow ethereal is actually in the material plane.
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
The shallow ethereal is the material plane, the immaterial forces that are part of material plane.
An ethereal creature is an object made out of force, and walks among the objects made out of matter, within the material world.
An ethereal creature perceives the matter according to its forces. Moreorless material objects look normal, except more transparent, diffuse and misty, possibly involving visible auras.
The spirit worlds of feywild and shadowfell are ethereal forces.
The positivity enlivens the fey ether. Oppositely, the negativity deadens the shadow ether. The positive energy plane is actual energy, imbuing blessings of life and success. The socalled negative energy plane is a misnomer. There is actually no such thing as "negative energy". Negativity is resistance that eventually nullifies positive energy. Pure negativity is emptiness. The shadow is absence of light.
In contrast to a dead creature that rests, an "undead" creature reuses positive energy to physicalize memories of once having been alive. These semblances of life are deathly distortions - vague rememberings interrupted by the factuality of death - and never an actual life. But the undead can appear convincing to the living, at least at times. The alternative to undeath is oblivian, but to rest in peace is its own kind of good. To persist actively as undeath is various kinds of dissatisfaction and torment. Typically only a powerful incentive can motivate a dead being to persist as undeath.
The fey and shadow are ethereal forces, under positive and negative influence, respectively. The shallow ethereal includes the shallow fey and the shallow shadow.
The positivity and negativity alter the perception of the material plane.
From the perspective of the shadow, the objects of matter appear deathly. Humans move about yet corpselike, trees are rotting, iron tools rust, gorgeous fabrics unravel, all things decay and disintegrate under the deenergizing influence of negativity. When shadow ether manifests physically in the material world, as if tangeable matter, it typically includes its deathlike features.
Oppositely, from the perspective of the fey, the objects of matter appear vivacious, vigorous, vibrant, fresh, alive. The fey view is glamorous, larger than life, stunningly beautiful. The "elf shine" is a literally a luminous energy but even more so, a psychologically compelling loveliness. Where the neutral ethereal perspective sees the worldly objects as-is albeit faintly, the fey ethereal perspective sees the worldly objects as even more real than real, bursting with new possibilities and effectiveness.
There is deep ethereal that virtually disconnects from the the material plane. The link to matter never truly disconnects, but the forms within the deep no longer correlate with what is actually happening in the material plane.
The deep shadow are memories of things that may no longer exist.
The deep fey are alternate timelines - the fates - that might never happen.
Within the shallow ethereal, fey spirits and shadow spirits can perceive each other, and interact with each other, while in the same house that is made out of matter in the material plane.
The fey spirits perceive the shadow spirits as deathly. They are blackholes within a living world. Viceversa, the shadow spirits perceive the fey spirits as vibrant. They are suns blazing within a dead world.
An ethereal creature is an object made out of force, and walks among the objects made out of matter, within the material world.
An ethereal creature perceives the matter according to its forces. Moreorless material objects look normal, except more transparent, diffuse and misty, possibly involving visible auras.
The spirit worlds of feywild and shadowfell are ethereal forces.
The positivity enlivens the fey ether. Oppositely, the negativity deadens the shadow ether. The positive energy plane is actual energy, imbuing blessings of life and success. The socalled negative energy plane is a misnomer. There is actually no such thing as "negative energy". Negativity is resistance that eventually nullifies positive energy. Pure negativity is emptiness. The shadow is absence of light.
In contrast to a dead creature that rests, an "undead" creature reuses positive energy to physicalize memories of once having been alive. These semblances of life are deathly distortions - vague rememberings interrupted by the factuality of death - and never an actual life. But the undead can appear convincing to the living, at least at times. The alternative to undeath is oblivian, but to rest in peace is its own kind of good. To persist actively as undeath is various kinds of dissatisfaction and torment. Typically only a powerful incentive can motivate a dead being to persist as undeath.
The fey and shadow are ethereal forces, under positive and negative influence, respectively. The shallow ethereal includes the shallow fey and the shallow shadow.
The positivity and negativity alter the perception of the material plane.
From the perspective of the shadow, the objects of matter appear deathly. Humans move about yet corpselike, trees are rotting, iron tools rust, gorgeous fabrics unravel, all things decay and disintegrate under the deenergizing influence of negativity. When shadow ether manifests physically in the material world, as if tangeable matter, it typically includes its deathlike features.
Oppositely, from the perspective of the fey, the objects of matter appear vivacious, vigorous, vibrant, fresh, alive. The fey view is glamorous, larger than life, stunningly beautiful. The "elf shine" is a literally a luminous energy but even more so, a psychologically compelling loveliness. Where the neutral ethereal perspective sees the worldly objects as-is albeit faintly, the fey ethereal perspective sees the worldly objects as even more real than real, bursting with new possibilities and effectiveness.
There is deep ethereal that virtually disconnects from the the material plane. The link to matter never truly disconnects, but the forms within the deep no longer correlate with what is actually happening in the material plane.
The deep shadow are memories of things that may no longer exist.
The deep fey are alternate timelines - the fates - that might never happen.
Within the shallow ethereal, fey spirits and shadow spirits can perceive each other, and interact with each other, while in the same house that is made out of matter in the material plane.
The fey spirits perceive the shadow spirits as deathly. They are blackholes within a living world. Viceversa, the shadow spirits perceive the fey spirits as vibrant. They are suns blazing within a dead world.
