D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Maxperson]

There is a difference between class features and spell features.

And augment is a class feature tied to spells. Anyone can upcast. Only psions have the class feature to augment spells like that.

Augment is a spell feature, part of a spell description. Any spell might need it depending on the nature of the spell.

So make it a class feature. Anyone can learn Anchored Navigation, but only psions can make use of augment because their class feature allows it. Easy peasy.

I dont care about "unique" mechanics and "niches". I would rather customize whatever character concept I want by mix-and-matching whichever mechanic I need for the concept.

Okay, but that's not D&D. It's Gurps or another generic system like that. D&D is about classes with unique or semi-unique abilities.

 

[Staffan]

Actually, 5e spell consolidation should have already combined these redundant spells into a single spell. Compare how all the redundant 3e Cure Wounds spells (Light, Moderate, Serious, Critical) did combine into a single 5e Cure Wounds spell.

For some reason, the 5e devs chose to only use upcasting for "going bigger", rather than qualitative changes. Yes, cure wounds was turned into a single spell with upcast options, but we still have both lesser restoration, restoration, and greater restoration. That's one of the things that makes me curious and I would like to pick their brain about it.

 

[Minigiant]

Multiclassing hurts any pure caster who loses out on higher levels spells, because a 5th level spell slot < 5th level spell. What multiclassing does is give some increased versatility, which while good, isn't as good as the higher level spells the caster is missing by not going single class. Also, 20% of campaigns is a very significant percentage. It's literally millions of people these days.

You get 5th level spells at level 9, when most campaigns end.

 

[glass]

No, I fully get that. What I don't get why people keep wasting time for clamouring some perfect pipe-dream vision of a Psion with completely new bespoke mechanics that WotC is never going to print. If you have such a clear vision, write it an use it in your own games. Problem solved.

People are talking about what they want on a public discussion forum. Arguably, no forum discussion is particularly productive, but people saying what they want in psionics is at least no worse a waste of time that your constantly telling people that they should not want what they want (or at least should not talk about it).

In 3e: [...] The 3e Psion is a full caster who casts the appropriate spell slots at the appropriate caster levels, from spell slot level 1 spells to spell slot level 9 spells.

Psions do not cast spells, they manifest powers. They do not use spell points, they use power points, and most fundamentally they have nothing whatsoever to do with slots. Points are fungible in a way that slots are not, and this is a significant difference.

Powers do have levels on the same 1-9 scale as spells, but aside from that the above Luke Skywalker quote continues to apply.

3e augment = 5e "at higher levels"

No. No they don't mean the same thing at all. In 5e you cannot add NEW and DIFFERENT effects by casting in higher slots. 3e augments could.

I am not sure to what extent 5e's "At higher levels" actually is used to permit significantly new effects, but it certainly could be. OTOH, even if they were used to exactly the same extent, there would still be a fundamental difference because augmentation is based on points and (barring optional varients), "at higher levels" is based on slots.

_
glass.

 

[Jer]

I am not sure to what extent 5e's "At higher levels" actually is used to permit significantly new effects, but it certainly could be. OTOH, even if they were used to exactly the same extent, there would still be a fundamental difference because augmentation is based on points and (barring optional varients), "at higher levels" is based on slots.

Unless you're a sorcerer, in which case your points are slots. And vice-versa. And also you can use them for augments that the wizard doesn't get access to.

(The problem with the psion is that the sorcerer has the psion mechanics but not the flavor. Convert their spell slots of 5th level or less into spell points, remove components, use the word "power" everywhere a sorc uses "spell", make their "spell slots" higher than 5th level a "x times per day" power slots, and add some specific psionic spells/powers to their "spell" list that nobody else gets and you pretty much have something that could reasonably be called a 5e psion within the 5e mechanical bounds that the devs have set up.).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Unless you're a sorcerer, in which case your points are slots. And vice-versa. And also you can use them for augments that the wizard doesn't get access to.

(The problem with the psion is that the sorcerer has the psion mechanics but not the flavor. Convert their spell slots of 5th level or less into spell points, remove components, use the word "power" everywhere a sorc uses "spell", make their "spell slots" higher than 5th level a "x times per day" power slots, and add some specific psionic spells/powers to their "spell" list that nobody else gets and you pretty much have something that could reasonably be called a 5e psion within the 5e mechanical bounds that the devs have set up.).

Right. So like I suggested ages ago, expand Warlock to cover Sorcerer fluff too, and then use the now abandoned Sorcerer chassis to build a Psion.

 

[Minigiant]

Unless you're a sorcerer, in which case your points are slots. And vice-versa. And also you can use them for augments that the wizard doesn't get access to.

(The problem with the psion is that the sorcerer has the psion mechanics but not the flavor. Convert their spell slots of 5th level or less into spell points, remove components, use the word "power" everywhere a sorc uses "spell", make their "spell slots" higher than 5th level a "x times per day" power slots, and add some specific psionic spells/powers to their "spell" list that nobody else gets and you pretty much have something that could reasonably be called a 5e psion within the 5e mechanical bounds that the devs have set up.).

The sorcerer is also missing many psionic themed spells and some psionic spells don't exist in 5e.

 

[Jer]

The sorcerer is also missing many psionic themed spells and some psionic spells don't exist in 5e.

Yes, as I said you need to add some specific psionic spells/powers to their list that nobody else gets. The chassis for the class is in place, but it does still need some content to finish it off.

 

[Yaarel]

the now abandoned Sorcerer chassis to build a Psion.

But the Sorcerer mechanics suck. I dont want those mechanics. Heh fiddly subpar Sorcerer points can die in a fire.

The Psion needs to built from scratch, from the ground up, around the things that telepaths, telekineticists, creators, shapeshifters, psychic healers, and spacetime controllers and sensors can do.

 

[Yaarel]

Redarding the Sorcerer class, it can quietly retire. Let the Warlock take its flavor, and have the pact be about the magical transformation of the body, by various means.