D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Micah Sweet]

To everyone confidently asseting that X does not matter (@Crimson Longinus being a prolific offender, but not the only one): X (whatever it is) may not matter to you. You do not get to dictate what matters to anyone other than you.

If people got that, this thread would be a hell of a lot shorter.

_
glass.

If people got that, this site would be a lot shorter.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Tossing out setting lore is all the rage now. Don't expect literary integrity to protect Dark Sun.

Yes, good. Reproduce the themes and feel of the Dark Sun and don’t get bogged down to the pointless minutiae.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, good. Reproduce the themes and feel of the Dark Sun and don’t get bogged down to the pointless minutiae.

If you're not going to use the story of Dark Sun, why bother with it at all? And marketing/name recognition is not an acceptable answer to me.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

If you're not going to use the story of Dark Sun, why bother with it at all? And marketing/name recognition is not an acceptable answer to me.

They should use the core of the original ‘story’ from the setting box, but even then the big picture is important, not the minutiae. And they definitely should jettison the stuff from the novels, which seriously altered the setting and left less for the PC to do. To me it is far more important that they respect the spirit of the setting rather than the technical details.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They should use the core of the original ‘story’ from the setting box, but even then the big picture is important, not the minutiae. And they definitely should jettison the stuff from the novels, which seriously altered the setting and left less for the PC to do. To me it is far more important that they respect the spirit of the setting rather than the technical details.

Understandable, but you're going to get a lot of different opinions on what constitutes the "spirit of the setting". Remember, the majority of current D&D players have no personal experience with Dark Sun, and may not have heard of it at all. That means the fan input will be coming from veterans, at least of 4th ed (whose version was pretty well-received as I recall). And of course, WotC may very well decide to make huge changes on their own and ignore any advice. Wouldn't be the first time. I am obviously biased in that argument, as I've been hurt before.

This line of discussion does at least explain why you seem so determined that psionics not be realized in a way you don't like at least. I think you would have gotten less flack earlier if you had just explained your love of Dark Sun. Obviously you can't ignore 5e psionics rules if you're a fan of Athas.

 

[Maxperson]

Herer's the thing
The magic =/= psionics thing really doesn't matter.

The problem is

Animate Objects
Bigby's Hand
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Dominate Person
Dream
Seeming
Scrying
Telekinesis
Telepathy
Wall of Force

Are all traditional D&D and other Media Psionic effects. However they are all 5th level. Meaning you have to be 9th level to get it and you can't do it often until very high level.

In D&D, Arcane and Divine power sources get Psionincs at Mid-High level whereas Psionic power source gets Psioincs are Very Low level.
The balancing point was the Psioincs Users got weaker versions at low level and used points to match or exceed the Arcane version by Mid level.

So why don't we make low level versions of the these spells?

None of those spells are psionics. Not one. Mind control, telepathy, telekinesis when achieved through magic are not psionics, so arcane and divine power sources never get psionics. They can, though magic, mimic a bit of it.

Because 5e allows spellcasters to snag 1st and now 2nd level spells with feats and allows spellcasters to stack slots, cantrips power, and prepared spells. If you make the effects 1st level spells, you are effectively giving them to wizards, clerics, and every other caster for little cost. This thus nueters the point of having psioinic classes.

It doesn't neuter it all. Like not even a smidge. If a wizard has to get basically a wild talent through a feat to gain a bit of psionics. That's cool. It's an investment of resources to become a wizard with a bit of psionics. That doesn't impinge on or negate the point of having psionic classes at all.

 

[Maxperson]

No, what is important that arcane magic has adverse environmental effects, so it matters that psionics is not arcane magic. It can still be magic just fine.

Dark Sun separated psionics from magic as something different, so the flavor is changed if you make it magic in that setting.

 

[Maxperson]

BTW, I want to add that Dark Sun is my favourite official setting Eberron coming second. I get that psionics is important to these settings. But I don't think psionics being not-magic is important to either nor is psionics having some weird incompatible system.

And we understand that this is how you personally feel. Do you understand that some of us here feel otherwise?

I didn't really care that psionics were a type of magic by default in 3e. I kept it that way, but included a -3 or -5(can't remember now) penalty to rolls for one to dispel the other, in order to preserve some of the feel of difference. Had I run Dark Sun in 3e, though, I would have divorced the two completely. The feel of Dark Sun is completely changed for me if you make them both magic.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, good. Reproduce the themes and feel of the Dark Sun and don’t get bogged down to the pointless minutiae.

You can't toss out the lore and retain the feel. The lore is huge part of why one setting feels so much different than another.

 

[Cadence]

Are "white magic" and "black magic" fundamentally different in important ways in lots of stories? Are "miracles", "witchcraft", and "wizardry" viewed differently in many settings/stories?