Crimson Longinus
Legend
It's definitely not a huge deal. The novels ruined the setting anyway, and should be ignored. Also, wizardry and psionics certainly can be very different whilst both still being magic.
D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?
- Thread starter Smackpixi
- Start date
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
They could be. But psionics has been treated differently in every edition of the game prior to this one- so maybe psionics fans are just special snowflakes. It does mean that they have decades of the game catering to their whims and to now to be like "oh you're just alt Wizards now" feels wrong to them. Even if this is the "every caster is a Wizard" edition. ^_^
glass
(he, him)
To everyone confidently asserting that X does not matter (@Crimson Longinus being a prolific offender, but not the only one): X (whatever it is) may not matter to you. You do not get to dictate what matters to anyone other than you.
If people got that, this thread would be a hell of a lot shorter.
_
glass.
If people got that, this thread would be a hell of a lot shorter.
_
glass.
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Part of the problem is like I said.
D&D magic uses Mind Magic totally differently with its Magic. Shoving Psioinics into Spells is no way as seemless as people say.
Psionics Fans are asking for something D&D Magic doesn't do. It's like asking for Ressurection and Teleportation as a cantrip, or level 1 Fireballs. An Alt Wizard will never have the end point effects at the levels and number Psioinic fans want.
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
It would be ideal if psionics continued it's trend of being mechanically distinct from spellcasting, but 5e wasn't built around the premise of the traditional psionic character. Despite being an optional system, great pains were taken to make multiclassing viable and allowing spell using classes to hybridize with little fuss. WotC has shown they are perfectly happy to create many new spells and subclasses, but are obviously not as devoted to developing new classes.
So the best we can probably hope for will likely be something like Pathfinder's Occult classes or something. I'd be happy to be wrong on this point, but it is what it is, we may be forced to wait for some third party developer, unless a fan-made psionics system that is widely adopted appears.
Having said that, I don't think 5e's design space is so narrow that it couldn't have an alternative to a spellcaster who produces supernatural effects- I think way upthread I mentioned how the Rune Knight does this, and could be expanded into a "Runecaster" class that produces magical effects that aren't specifically spells.
But WotC is probably of the mindset that the juice has to be worth the squeeze, and will likely take the path of least resistance.
The game will, however, get more complex over time as they attempt to support more campaign settings. We've already seen that they are willing to fiddle with how elements like Backgrounds and Feats function in the Dragonlance UA, they have experimented with more class-agnostic subclasses, and the Mystic, while terribly balanced, at least shows that someone wants to open up the design space of the game.
Player reaction, so far, has been mixed at best. A lot of people have strong opinions about what 5e should be, and should not be. Psionics has traditionally gotten a bad rap in the past, for some fair reasons, and some unfair reasons. This is no doubt why we have yet to see a Tome of Magic or Tome of Battle style expansion to the game rules, and no doubt never will- new content will be attached to new settings for the game.
Dark Sun isn't the only psionic setting, of course, but it's the one with the strongest link to psionic powers, followed by Eberron (due to the Quori and the Kalashtar). If they are working on Dragonlance next, they won't be too worried about psionics.
I don't really know how anyone can make their voices heard that there are people who strongly want psionics and want it to be mechanically and thematically distinct from arcane magic- I don't know if the community of players who want these things is large enough to make a real impact.
But I will try to answer the question posed by the thread. What's the big deal about psionics?
It's a nebulous and divisive concept that some care for, and some do not care for. It hearkens back to the very early years of the game, and it's roots in science fantasy that have been largely rejected in favor of "Ren faire with magic" campaigns.
It's easier to describe what psionics fans don't want, than what they do want. And it's easier for those who aren't psionics fans to tear it down as being "historically unbalanced and not a good fit for my Tolkien-derived fantasy game with the Dungeons and the Dragons".
We won't get a good psionics system as long as the game developers don't have a particular passion for it. Or the player base at large. All we can do is try to educate people on the fence, and hope for the future.
So the best we can probably hope for will likely be something like Pathfinder's Occult classes or something. I'd be happy to be wrong on this point, but it is what it is, we may be forced to wait for some third party developer, unless a fan-made psionics system that is widely adopted appears.
Having said that, I don't think 5e's design space is so narrow that it couldn't have an alternative to a spellcaster who produces supernatural effects- I think way upthread I mentioned how the Rune Knight does this, and could be expanded into a "Runecaster" class that produces magical effects that aren't specifically spells.
But WotC is probably of the mindset that the juice has to be worth the squeeze, and will likely take the path of least resistance.
The game will, however, get more complex over time as they attempt to support more campaign settings. We've already seen that they are willing to fiddle with how elements like Backgrounds and Feats function in the Dragonlance UA, they have experimented with more class-agnostic subclasses, and the Mystic, while terribly balanced, at least shows that someone wants to open up the design space of the game.
Player reaction, so far, has been mixed at best. A lot of people have strong opinions about what 5e should be, and should not be. Psionics has traditionally gotten a bad rap in the past, for some fair reasons, and some unfair reasons. This is no doubt why we have yet to see a Tome of Magic or Tome of Battle style expansion to the game rules, and no doubt never will- new content will be attached to new settings for the game.
Dark Sun isn't the only psionic setting, of course, but it's the one with the strongest link to psionic powers, followed by Eberron (due to the Quori and the Kalashtar). If they are working on Dragonlance next, they won't be too worried about psionics.
I don't really know how anyone can make their voices heard that there are people who strongly want psionics and want it to be mechanically and thematically distinct from arcane magic- I don't know if the community of players who want these things is large enough to make a real impact.
But I will try to answer the question posed by the thread. What's the big deal about psionics?
It's a nebulous and divisive concept that some care for, and some do not care for. It hearkens back to the very early years of the game, and it's roots in science fantasy that have been largely rejected in favor of "Ren faire with magic" campaigns.
It's easier to describe what psionics fans don't want, than what they do want. And it's easier for those who aren't psionics fans to tear it down as being "historically unbalanced and not a good fit for my Tolkien-derived fantasy game with the Dungeons and the Dragons".
We won't get a good psionics system as long as the game developers don't have a particular passion for it. Or the player base at large. All we can do is try to educate people on the fence, and hope for the future.
Crimson Longinus
Legend
BTW, I want to add that Dark Sun is my favourite official setting Eberron coming second. I get that psionics is important to these settings. But I don't think psionics being not-magic is important to either nor is psionics having some weird incompatible system. Both of these demands are merely distractions that make these setting metaphysically less coherent and mechanically less accessible. And of course ultimately make psionics happening at all less likely. Seriously, I just want them to print Dark Sun, with a simple spell using psion mainly built using existing tested framework. I don't want it to be some niche thing for handful of hardcore fans clamouring for some mostly forgotten 2e mechanics and tropes, I want it to be something current 5e players can recognise and start playing with ease.
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Though they do serve to make those settings more unique. One can hope that in the next edition, they'll ditch the Realms and make Eberron the core setting, so all the working parts neatly line up with it. Making a game first, and then trying to figure out how to make an older setting work with it, doesn't seem to be WotC's strong suit.
With Eberron, at least, it was mainly designed to work with 3e's mechanics, with the only real workaround needed was having NPC Magewrights to explain where all the magitech was coming from when only 0.01% of spellcasters being above 8th level.
With Eberron, at least, it was mainly designed to work with 3e's mechanics, with the only real workaround needed was having NPC Magewrights to explain where all the magitech was coming from when only 0.01% of spellcasters being above 8th level.
The problem is it isn't simple. A Psion worth the paper it's printed require complexity, care, and compromise neither the 5e designers and the D&D community are ready for.
A simple spell using Psion would end up being like the PHB sorcerer: a waste of ink with untapped potential. Except it won't have the whole lifetime of 5th edition and fan pressure to get it fixed.
That's why the 5th edition design team dropped Psionics. They don't have the drive or will to fight the community and dig in their collection creativity to do Psionics right. They don't care enough about Psionics to get an easier Spell Psion done.
Zubatcarteira
Now you're infected by the Musical Doodle
Well, it's just that it wouldn't work in that case, there's a lot of magic that isn't dispellable already. Anti-Magic Field would make more sense since that one does block magic in general. I do absolutely loathe the way magic is treated in the game, that pretty much everything is magic, but only some things are magic enough to be classified as such for anti-magic field and magic resistance. Of course, the dinstinction isn't anywhere in the books as far as I can tell.
Anyway, for the psion, if they do use normal spells, then Dispel Magic would apply, along with Counterspell and all the anti-spell stuff in general. People seem to not want for them to use spells, which is fair if it's the flavor they want, coupled with WoTC's inability to not buff the Wizard every 5 minutes. I doubt it won't count as magic in the end though.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Tossing out setting lore is all the rage now. Don't expect literary integrity to protect Dark Sun.
