What 5e got wrong

Hiya!

(3) "POOF! You're healed." The rules where you sleep and wake up fully healed. Ick. Icky-poo, actually. A core rule this time that totally destroys my SoD. I changed it in my game...the first one I actually played.

Couldn't disagree more here one thing I hated about earlier eds was being on a epic quest to save the world and taking a week to heal. Maybe full HP is to much but 3es 1hp a level was way to low and practically required a heal botting. I know its a pain for SoD but then its a world with dragons n fire balls, maybe healing pixies come along at night when your sleeping.
 

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Hiya!

Couldn't disagree more here one thing I hated about earlier eds was being on a epic quest to save the world and taking a week to heal. Maybe full HP is to much but 3es 1hp a level was way to low and practically required a heal botting. I know its a pain for SoD but then its a world with dragons n fire balls, maybe healing pixies come along at night when your sleeping.

Yeah, but in earlier editions most campaigns were simply not about "epic" quests to save the world". In earlier editions, campaigns were generally assumed to last years and years, with characters rarely reaching levels higher than 12 to 15.

Also, in earlier editions, HP's were one of those things you didn't want to loose...so, IME, players were a lot more likely to actually stop and think about what battles to fight and how to do it. Just popping up a spell or two and leaping into every encounter as a battle was almost guaranteed to result in eventual mass suicide.

Different game design goals, really. Earlier editions were more about exploration and character/campaign development as a group thing than todays. Todays editions (basically, 3e+) are, IMHO, more about "heroic, me, me, me!" style adventuring where everyone at the table is asumed to be a special snowflake, destined to "save the world in an epic adventure". Just look at what they are putting out; adventures that are designed to be "campaigns" where the PC's start at level 1, go to 15 to 20, 'save the world' and end. Put your character away, remember fondly about the 'campaign', roll up a new guy and do it again...with your former PC's and 'campaign' having nothing to do with your "new campaign and PC's". *shrig* Nothing wrong with that style of "quick-rise epic'ness, save-the-world-every-6-months" play...but its not how earlier editions were assumed to be played.

As I said...different design goals. For me and my group, a character who just took 89hp's of damage from his 92hp total can get to the inn, order dinner and a pitcher of mead, hit the sack, and wake up fresh as a daisy. "Save-the-world, special-snowflake" is the assumed default...hence, "POOF! You're healed!". As Mr.Horse would say... "Hmmm....uh-huh...errrr....mmmmm.... No sir. I don't like it." ;)

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

Hiya!



Yeah, but in earlier editions most campaigns were simply not about "epic" quests to save the world". In earlier editions, campaigns were generally assumed to last years and years, with characters rarely reaching levels higher than 12 to 15.

Also, in earlier editions, HP's were one of those things you didn't want to loose...so, IME, players were a lot more likely to actually stop and think about what battles to fight and how to do it. Just popping up a spell or two and leaping into every encounter as a battle was almost guaranteed to result in eventual mass suicide.

Different game design goals, really. Earlier editions were more about exploration and character/campaign development as a group thing than todays. Todays editions (basically, 3e+) are, IMHO, more about "heroic, me, me, me!" style adventuring where everyone at the table is asumed to be a special snowflake, destined to "save the world in an epic adventure". Just look at what they are putting out; adventures that are designed to be "campaigns" where the PC's start at level 1, go to 15 to 20, 'save the world' and end. Put your character away, remember fondly about the 'campaign', roll up a new guy and do it again...with your former PC's and 'campaign' having nothing to do with your "new campaign and PC's". *shrig* Nothing wrong with that style of "quick-rise epic'ness, save-the-world-every-6-months" play...but its not how earlier editions were assumed to be played.

As I said...different design goals. For me and my group, a character who just took 89hp's of damage from his 92hp total can get to the inn, order dinner and a pitcher of mead, hit the sack, and wake up fresh as a daisy. "Save-the-world, special-snowflake" is the assumed default...hence, "POOF! You're healed!". As Mr.Horse would say... "Hmmm....uh-huh...errrr....mmmmm.... No sir. I don't like it." ;)

^_^

Paul L. Ming
Guess your right there. I have allways played the destined to save the planet. Been trying to reel it in and have more modular play. Old habits die hard. As for avoiding HP damge my groups have all ways been combat for sport types so the HP depletion shut us down.
 

Couldn't disagree more here one thing I hated about earlier eds was being on a epic quest to save the world and taking a week to heal. Maybe full HP is to much but 3es 1hp a level was way to low and practically required a heal botting. I know its a pain for SoD but then its a world with dragons n fire balls, maybe healing pixies come along at night when your sleeping.


Yoiu also tend to take a lot less damage in AD&D (short of Dragonbreath) and there was usually extra healing available in a lot of adventures from potions (to find) or magical fountains.

Kobolds 5E +4 to hit (with advantage alot of the time)
AD&D +0 to hit 1d3 damage

ACs were also higher in AD&D relative to monster attack bonuses. We had clericless parties as well and the 1d3 daily healing thing worked well in adventures like hexcrawls (X1 Isle of Dread) and 5E fails hard at those adventures IMHO. Had a similar discussion last week about one of my players who has only played AD&D a little bit as we were playing SWSE after 5E and he forgot about numbers bloat in 3E and damage bloat from 5E.

The big sticking points I find from modern players when they play AD&D/Basic now (as opposed to back in the day) is THACO and AD&Ds ability score system (BECMI is fine). When a 4th level fighter wades into a group of Kobolds or Goblins and gets 4 attacks a round they seem to have fun with it. I think I prefer the BECMI/C&C/Myth and Magic stat modifieras 20 ion 5E is a bit high with bounded accuracy IMHO.

BECMI
Score/modifer
3, -3
4-5, -2
6-8, -1
9-12 +0
13-15 +1
16-17 +2
18, +3

A clone like Castles and Crusades uses this and has ascending ACs and attack numbers and I find it very easy to run it (easier than 5E).

They generally like the different rates of xp required, the adventures and the amount of loot they get. Kill a 2HD ghoul get an 8000gp (and 8k xp) necklace. See a wight and run for the hills. You also roleplay more due to quick combats and you get more xp from loot than killing stuff so from a powergaming PoV exploration is often better than combat.
 
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For me, 5e has the same art issue as 4e. Wonderful landscapes and scenes, but characters and monsters don't instill any sense of wonder or excitement. 3.x couldn't get any of it right ;)

Not that it's a "wrong" .


5e needs more LMoP type products. Hopefully the Guild and SRD will remedy that and get the ball rolling.
 
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Hence I replied back it was a suggestion and we had a discussions where I said i can see that point of view and we talked about maybe allowing dex, wisdom or int to be used

Dex which is based on reaction

Wisdom experience and knowledge allow you to decipher weakness exploiting those weaknesses

INT you are smart and have a high understanding of tactics using that to your advantage

I always think of CON as how healthy someone is, obviously. This means there body is very likely symmetrical. We find symmetrical bodies attractive because being attracted to someone basically is a test to rate someone as healthy (symmetrical) versus non-healthy (asymmetrical).

My house-rule for appearance is, more or less, 5 + CON mod + CHA mod on a scale 1-10 with 11+ being higher 10's.

One would assume that a healthy body would have evolutionary advantages, and would likely do more than just give more hit points, or resist disease.
 

Wayne Reynolds, William O'Connor, and Eva Widermann all did amazing work. I really wish they would have rehired them instead of these new artists.

Hiya!



Yeah, but in earlier editions most campaigns were simply not about "epic" quests to save the world". In earlier editions, campaigns were generally assumed to last years and years, with characters rarely reaching levels higher than 12 to 15.

Also, in earlier editions, HP's were one of those things you didn't want to loose...so, IME, players were a lot more likely to actually stop and think about what battles to fight and how to do it. Just popping up a spell or two and leaping into every encounter as a battle was almost guaranteed to result in eventual mass suicide.

Different game design goals, really. Earlier editions were more about exploration and character/campaign development as a group thing than todays. Todays editions (basically, 3e+) are, IMHO, more about "heroic, me, me, me!" style adventuring where everyone at the table is asumed to be a special snowflake, destined to "save the world in an epic adventure". Just look at what they are putting out; adventures that are designed to be "campaigns" where the PC's start at level 1, go to 15 to 20, 'save the world' and end. Put your character away, remember fondly about the 'campaign', roll up a new guy and do it again...with your former PC's and 'campaign' having nothing to do with your "new campaign and PC's". *shrig* Nothing wrong with that style of "quick-rise epic'ness, save-the-world-every-6-months" play...but its not how earlier editions were assumed to be played.

As I said...different design goals. For me and my group, a character who just took 89hp's of damage from his 92hp total can get to the inn, order dinner and a pitcher of mead, hit the sack, and wake up fresh as a daisy. "Save-the-world, special-snowflake" is the assumed default...hence, "POOF! You're healed!". As Mr.Horse would say... "Hmmm....uh-huh...errrr....mmmmm.... No sir. I don't like it." ;)

^_^

Paul L. Ming

I'm glad they changed it to special-snowflakes-save-the-world or whatever. That's much better than playing fantasy-Oceans-Eleven or fantasy-f***ing-Vietnam or whatever you want to call it. At least they included variant rules in the DMG so you old farts can play your nursing home version of D&D.
 

o_O

Wayne Reynolds, William O'Connor, and Eva Widermann all did amazing work. I really wish they would have rehired them instead of these new artists.

I'm glad they changed it to special-snowflakes-save-the-world or whatever. That's much better than playing fantasy-Oceans-Eleven or fantasy-f***ing-Vietnam or whatever you want to call it. At least they included variant rules in the DMG so you old farts can play your nursing home version of D&D.

Oooo....kaaaayyyy.....

*shrug* Different strokes for different folks I guess. I'm just glad that I can fix/modify/manipulate 5e fairly easily to get a more "1e style" game. :)

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

Funny thing is, special snowflake play was in there pretty darn early. Dragonlance was being played in the very early eighties. It's hardly true that story driven play is a new concept.
 


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