D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Ruin Explorer]

My point the entire time is they cannot be both - they have to be one or the other. Either they're humans and need to be held to that standard or they're 'human' and they can be or do whatever. But they cannot be both.

They're clearly the latter.

This is proven by what they can do. Even avoiding "rules as physics", D&D humans can do stuff obviously not physically possible for RL humans, and even where it's something that would be possible, in most cases it's relatively far easier for the D&D human to pull it off. A lot of D&D characters just casually pull off stuff that specialist athletes who've practiced for decades can barely do, and they can do it in multiple fields. Climb a 30ft vertical wall with limited handholds, in the dark, in 6 seconds in full armour with a backpack on? No worries. Jump a 10ft gap in similar gear, or whilst wearing a ridiculous wizard robe and a silly hat? You don't even have to roll! The average human in D&D can utterly reliably jump a 10ft gap with a 10ft run-up. The average human!

There's never, in human history, I would offer, been a period when could routinely jump 10ft gaps without breaking a sweat. You don't even end up prone or struggling or something, you Just Do It.

 

[mamba]

The difference in the fauna is a difference in the conditions of the planet. A tiny shift in oxygen percentage let insects grow as big as a car and the titanoboa to be the size of a school bus.

I know, but that change in Oxygen will not do all that much for humans, just like the current bee will not suddenly be supersized. Evolution over time might, but whatever that result is will have a different name

 

[Gammadoodler]

So, as I was just saying, then your answer is "I just deny the first premise" - which is fine - it just means that 'humans' in D&D are actually not humans, they're some sort of supernatural being that just happens to use the same name.

I mean that's one way to read it. You could also read it as

"humans in a fantasy setting either lack some of the constraints they have on earth or have additional options to overcome them..magic being one of many."

I'm not sure which is easier..saying

"well they're not humans"
Or
"well it's not earth"

But there's a helluva lot of evidence for the second..

 

[mamba]

It was a trick question: there are no Earth humans in D&D. Because it is a game of fantasy people in a fantasy setting.

if they didn’t think of humans as we know them, then they should have used a different species name

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Honestly, I'm glad they did move away from the 3e/4e models of magic items as regularly structured power-ups. It gives the players a lot more freedom to keep the magic items they find that really speak to them rather than dump them in favor of the ones that just give them the most pluses (the Big 6). And considering the AD&D days where we made do with the magic items we found, it's about the MOST D&Dish thing they could have done.

It's not and you can't rationally argue that, because "older" doesn't make something "more D&D". That's a completely irrational and sentimental position of the absolutely worst kind. That's not the good argument you think it is.

And this bit:

It gives the players a lot more freedom to keep the magic items they find that really speak to them rather than dump them in favor of the ones that just give them the most pluses (the Big 6)

What?! I mean genuinely what are you talking about? 34 years of D&D, like a dozen groups, I dunno how many people, and I don't I've ever seen a player go "Oh I love this magic item but I have to throw it away so I can use this higher number one, oh I'm so sad!", which seems to your contention here. And 5E does not solve that at all unless the player literally cannot do math or understand rules.

In 5E magic item with more pluses is worth MORE than they were in previous editions. In 3E and 4E, magic items were assumed into the rules. Whereas in 5E, they're not - and thus in 5E, they break bounded accuracy (inarguably), and thus more plus are more powerful, pound for pound as it were, in 5E. 5E some really insane high-damage items too, like the +2d6 on a flaming sword, which absolutely laughs at the bonus values on items in earlier editions (relative to the per-swing damage).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

if they didn’t think of humans as we know them, then they should have used a different species name

No.

My argument is equally valid to yours, both are nullified.

Plus you could say the same about halflings, dwarves, gnomes, elves, with like "Well if they're not identical to Tolkien's blah, why did they call them that then!?!!??!" and so on. It's just a plainly ineffectual argument.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Where does it say DnD world residents are built different? Show me.

If I stab my leg and go to sleep, I will still have a worrisome wound on my leg the next morning.

If a DnD human stabs their leg and goes to sleep, they will wake up as if it never happened.

You can argue 'that's just midichlorians in the world around them seeping into them', but is that really any different then.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Enh..magic, to me has specific connotations as a particular source of power. Requiring it, to me, needlessly shuts down the potential for other types of fantastical elements within a fantasy setting.

It's the "you can have any type of drink you like as long as it's Coke" approach to fantasy settings.

Great. I'm all for other fantastical elements. List them. In the book. Dont just assume their existence because of how the rules work.

 

[Minigiant]

Assuming that was true, whatever you exactly mean by that... would they have needed to replace it with something?

They designed the PHB and DMG under the philosophy that Magic items were expected and biased.

Then said to groups you could reform them.

That leaves a void. You either full the void or acknowledge the void.

You cannot pretend it's not there.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They're clearly the latter.

This is proven by what they can do. Even avoiding "rules as physics", D&D humans can do stuff obviously not physically possible for RL humans, and even where it's something that would be possible, in most cases it's relatively far easier for the D&D human to pull it off. A lot of D&D characters just casually pull off stuff that specialist athletes who've practiced for decades can barely or even casually do those athletes.

But they never say it. They never tell you humans in D&D are different from humans on Earth, so I have every reason to assume they aren't different, and that therefore the rules don't make sense.