D&D 5E (2014) What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Oofta]

Sure, but you can't have that answer in a traditional RPG.

An adventuring group is never late, nor are they early. They arrive precisely when the DM means them to.

 

[Neonchameleon]

What you're describing is what you do in a narrative or storygame, where dramatic need eclipses verisimilitude or any objective idea of how fast FTL travel in that universe actually is. If that's what you want, fine, but I prefer drama to not be a power source in my games.

My games don't have a "story" to serve.

That doesn't mean you can't do it in a traditional RPG. And many have. You simply want a physics sim in your game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That doesn't mean you can't do it in a traditional RPG. And many have. You simply want a physics sim in your game.

I do, and think the speed of plot is lazy storytelling besides.

 

[pemerton]

Or at least alternatives that don't ruin the story by randomly adding and replacing characters for no reason.

I want to Come Back Wrong, or be sent back with a mission from God.

Have I mentioned that Torchbearer does the former; more than once I did the latter in my 4e game (mechanically, the cost of a Raise Dead ritual can be subtracted from the treasure parcels awarded).

 

[pemerton]

it should matter, it just does not need to be mentioned in the movie

If it doesn't need to be mentioned in the movie, why does it need to be mentioned in the RPG? And if it doesn't need to be mentioned in the RPG, why should it matter.

I play some RPGs which require tracking of time by the day, and sometimes more fine-grained than that - eg Classic Traveller.

I play others that don't require tracking time at all - eg Marvel Heroic/Cortex+.

As far as contemporary D&D play is concerned, I think keeping track of time spent between rests probably matters (for spell durations and the like), and noting when a rest occurs matters, but beyond that the passage of time seems like mere colour.

 

[Red Castle]

What you're describing is what you do in a narrative or storygame, where dramatic need eclipses verisimilitude or any objective idea of how fast FTL travel in that universe actually is. If that's what you want, fine, but I prefer drama to not be a power source in my games.

My games don't have a "story" to serve.

You said that you can't have that kind of answer in a traditional RPG and I showed that you can.

How you feel about that kind of answer is entirely a matter of taste.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If it doesn't need to be mentioned in the movie, why does it need to be mentioned in the RPG? And if it doesn't need to be mentioned in the RPG, why should it matter.

I play some RPGs which require tracking of time by the day, and sometimes more fine-grained than that - eg Classic Traveller.

I play others that don't require tracking time at all - eg Marvel Heroic/Cortex+.

As far as contemporary D&D play is concerned, I think keeping track of time spent between rests probably matters (for spell durations and the like), and noting when a rest occurs matters, but beyond that the passage of time seems like mere colour.

That just means it doesn't matter to you, because you're playing it like an action movie anyway. Not everyone RPs that way.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You said that you can't have that kind of answer in a traditional RPG and I showed that you can.

How you feel about that kind of answer is entirely a matter of taste.

You can't do it in a traditional RPG without making it a less traditional RPG (ie, engaging in unnecessary narrativism).

 

[pemerton]

Sure, but you can't have that answer in a traditional RPG.

What you're describing is what you do in a narrative or storygame, where dramatic need eclipses verisimilitude or any objective idea of how fast FTL travel in that universe actually is. If that's what you want, fine, but I prefer drama to not be a power source in my games.

My games don't have a "story" to serve.

You seem to be conflating two diametrically opposed ways of resolving travel in a drama-centric fashion.

In what is often called "trad" or "Hickman revolution" RPGing, the GM makes a decision about what the next event/story beat will be, and narrates accordingly. An early example of this that I'm familiar with, that actually predates Hickman, is found in the example dungeon in the book What is Dungeons & Dragons, which was published in 1982. That dungeon has a "freeze frame" room - when the PCs arrive at the room, the prisoner is about to be sacrificed to the giant lizard by the evil priest. There is no "objective" timing to this - it is a GM-stipulated dramatic event, triggered by the PCs arriving in that part of the dungeon.

I think @Red Castle is describing a similar sort of approach.

In what are sometimes called "narrativist" or "story now" games - Apocalypse World is probably the most famous; Burning Wheel is one of my favourites; 4e skill challenges are the best instantiation with the D&D-verse - the GM does not pre-author arrival just in the nick of time, or just too late. Rather, these would be success results or failure results that are narrated in response to the appropriate check(s) made to resolve the travel. For instance, rushing through the enemy complex to try and rescue someone looks like (in AW terms) Acting Under Fire (where the "fire" is do I get there in time?). On a 10+the PC gets there in time; on a 7-9 the GM "offers a worse outcome, a hard bargain, or an ugly choice" - eg you can rescue your friend, or stop the villain, but not both (so many adventure stories features this sort of thing); on a failure the GM can makes as hard and direct a move as they like - you fail the rescue, and your friend is dead.

The two approaches are diametrically opposed because of the very different ways they locate the decisions of the participants vis-a-vis how the outcome is established. But the existence of either, or both, of them shows that it is quite straightforward to have dramatic-centric travel in RPGing.

 

[pemerton]

That just means it doesn't matter to you, because you're playing it like an action movie anyway. Not everyone RPs that way.

The post I was replying to asserted that it should matter. That is what I am disagreeing with.

If they asserted that it can matter, in some RPGing, well that would be quite uncontroversial.

You can't do it in a traditional RPG without making it a less traditional RPG (ie, engaging in unnecessary narrativism).

I don't know what you mean by "narrativism", but you're not using it in the way it is used by the person who brought it into the lexicon for describing RPGs (ie Ron Edwards).

I also don't know what you mean by "unnecessary". Unnecessary to whom? For what?