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What balances the Warforged?

Votan

Explorer
I found the Warforged Crusader in my party was absolutely dominant in a battle with Ghasts. Everyone else was sickened (-2 saves) and paralysis was a big problem. But he could not be paralyzed, was not able to be sickened and had DR 2/- so claw attacks did nearly nothing (1d4+3). They could barely hit an AC of 21.

10 Ghasts should have been hard for a 5th level party but he could have taken them all solo.

But this was probably a best case scenario for the warforged.
 

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Solarious

Explorer
Warforged are actually somewhere along the lines of 500+ for the low-end models (as stated in one of Keith Baker's mammoth Q&A threads on the WoTC boards, which I'll dig up if I find more time to waste): Cannith used the Creation Forges (aka. artifact-level plot devices), which not only speeds up the creation process, but also reduces the materials (and supplies most of the XP, presumably) needed to create them. Expensive/rare metals such as Mithril or Adamantine are not actually used, but are rather 'created' through the use of the Mark of Making and sustained afterwards by the Warforged itself. Removing the metals from a Warforged's body results in rapid decay. Therefore, it's not really that expensive to make one.

Details can be found here.

Disguise might be a Cha-linked ability, but it's a meer -1 penalty. You can easily compensate with a Potion of Disguise Self, or even a Hat of Disguise for a +9 bonus. For Bluff, the same can be solved with a Potion of Glibness. Warforged infiltrators don't stick around, they go in, grab the target, and get out quickly, so short term buffs are acceptable. Alternatively, don't be seen at all with Invisibility and/or Silence: measures like See Invsibility and Invisibility Purge both have range limitations, and are further hampered by the fact that they still have to be active at the right time (unreliable), or all the time (expensive). Meanwhile, an infiltrator can use diversions to turn attention away at an opportune moment, find a way to disable such protections, or even find an alternate route in: not needing to breathe and a immunity to nausea/sickness/disease can open a surprising number of routes *coughprivysewercough*.

Long term infiltration is a much more specialized job requiring significant resources to dodge the nigh-omnipresent magical measures: a job left to specialists such as House Philarlan and Thuranni, who have perfected their craft since the Age of Giants.
 

hong

WotC's bitch
Slaved said:
Which is great for the grunt types created with 10 intelligence or less, that is what they are there for.

What about those who were created with the no body armor feat, have an 18 intelligence, and have a personality matrix based on knowing everything they can about creatures and their societies? The lack of languages seems like a cheap hit for no good reason.

So make up a reason. It's make-believe, you are unconstrained by the vicissitudes of empirical confirmation.
 

shilsen

Adventurer
Solarious said:
Warforged are actually somewhere along the lines of 500+ for the low-end models (as stated in one of Keith Baker's mammoth Q&A threads on the WoTC boards, which I'll dig up if I find more time to waste)

Really? I had once culled a large number of questions and answers from those threads and he had mentioned warforged as costing around 20,000 gp during the War. He may have modified that later, but I doubt he'd drop it as low as 500+. Of course, that's just a suggestion from Keith's end.
 

irdeggman

First Post
Re: bonus languages. Warforged are hardly the "worst" offenders.

Try a Kalashtar. Bonus languages: draconic and Riedran.
Favored class: psion.

So they have a favored class with Intelligence as the prime ability score and yet only get 2 languages to choose from.

All of the core races get more choices for bonus languages.
 

McDungeon

First Post
Someone asked if there was an alter self form worth going into... The warforged charger from MM3 is a good choice, large size, 2 slam attacks, and some nice racial bonus feats.

The armor thing is pretty annoying, I don't know about you, but I make a lot of those checks, especially on an airship or fighting on top of a lightning rail train, etc.
 

Notmousse

First Post
shilsen said:
I had once culled a large number of questions and answers from those threads and he had mentioned warforged as costing around 20,000 gp during the War. He may have modified that later, but I doubt he'd drop it as low as 500+.
20,000 is still technically 500+.
 

Notmousse

First Post
Solarious: You mean the same short term infiltrations where they spend hours underwater and days without food water or sleep, then kill another warforged to become disguied as it?
 


Klaus

First Post
shilsen said:
Really? I had once culled a large number of questions and answers from those threads and he had mentioned warforged as costing around 20,000 gp during the War. He may have modified that later, but I doubt he'd drop it as low as 500+. Of course, that's just a suggestion from Keith's end.
Which eventually became 1500 gp (based on the slavery rules in the Book of Vile Darkness, pricing the warforged as valuable slaves). This price was for the average Warforged Ftr2, iirc.
 

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