D&D 3.x what book are 3.5 forsakers in?

[Mistwell]

You guys are missing the obvious analogy.

The Forsaker is the B.A. Baracus of the group.

You remember B.A. Baracus, right? See:

http://www.ateamshrine.co.uk/ba.php

Just as B.A. Baracus would "die before I fly", the Forsaker would "die before I fly, teleport, planeshift, or any of that jiggy magic stuff".

Now did forsaking all flying stop B.A. from being a contributing member of the A-Team? Heck no! In fact, it didn't even stop him from flying (virtually every episode). It was just ALWAYS against his will and while he was knocked unconsious. And let's face it...while you and I given the same situation would figure out that the rest of your crew was planning on knocking you out to take you somewhere on a helicopter every single week, B.A. just wasn't the brightest bulb in the bunch. Besides, he had Face using his super-high charisma and bluff skill to trick him into thinking everything was peachy keen. He honestly seemed surprised every single time that the rest of his party smacked him upside the head for a K-O to get around the thing he had forsaken.

In other words, with good role playing I think a Forsaken character can work just fine, even with a high level party, and even on the rare occassion when magic is necessary for the party to travel somewhere to further the plot.

Either that, or I've just been working too hard lately and have gone right out of my gord. Pity the fool.

 

[ThirdWizard]

It's more like B.A. if he had an aversion to tanks, guns, and vans.

Ooh, and flipping cars. Gotta flip a car every episode. What? Fifth season? Never happened. What Frankie? Homocidal rage building!!

 

[Gez]

I always disliked the Forsaker concept, and its implementation.

What would a forsaker IMC do once he discovers that life itself is magic? Commit seppuku?

 

[Felon]

I do like how you contunie to priove the class is not for everyone. You make great reasons for the DM to evaluate the class and only allow it in certain campaigns. The class has not been reprinted becasue it does cause problems and is badlky wirtten. That doesn't mean a compintent group can't talk it over and allow it. Okay, it is not for your game, but that doesn't mean it cannot work in mine.

If "your game" is D&D, then you are correct. He didn't just demonstrate how it wasn't appropriate for some people, he pretty handily demonstrated how it doesn't work, period. So have quite a few other people in quite a few other threads which no doubt you've seen. If the party teleports to the next encounter site, and you're even a day's horse ride away, you're effectively going to miss out on a good portion of the adventure. What, the Forsaker should only be played in campaigns where characters don't go very far from home?

 

[Crothian]

If "your game" is D&D, then you are correct. He didn't just demonstrate how it wasn't appropriate for some people, he pretty handily demonstrated how it doesn't work, period. So have quite a few other people in quite a few other threads which no doubt you've seen. If the party teleports to the next encounter site, and you're even a day's horse ride away, you're effectively going to miss out on a good portion of the adventure. What, the Forsaker should only be played in campaigns where characters don't go very far from home?

Not all games are like that. Not everyone has access to teleport, all DMs do not allow teleport in their games. And a Forsaker can be teleported, he won't be happy about it and he will have to fail the save. But he can be teleported.

 

[Crothian]

I always disliked the Forsaker concept, and its implementation.

What would a forsaker IMC do once he discovers that life itself is magic? Commit seppuku?

That would be a very interesting role playing and character self relization moment. There are people who play the game just for those types of times.

 

[IcyCool]

That would be a very interesting role playing and character self relization moment. There are people who play the game just for those types of times.

Shhh! Quiet man! Just smile and nod, and you should be able to get out of here without getting lynched. Just chant along with the crowd.

"Imohtep, Imohtep, I.. er wait, that's not right. What are they saying? Oh yes, Hack and Slash, Hack and Slash."

 

[radferth]

I always liked the forsaker, even though I thought the implementation was a bit off. The main problem I see with them is that the trade off between his abilities and the loss of magic use will be different for each campaign. We have had posters who play in campaigns where no use of magic is a deal breaker. I have played in campaigns such as this, but I have also played in ones so low in magic that forsakers where overpowered. I don't have any vile or exalted books, but a feat or feat chain does seem a better way to handle this than a PrC.

 

[Storyteller01]

My rant... Not intended to offend.

ISn't this a matter with how magic is viewed?

WHy would a mage teleport to a sight if it was a days ride away? Especially given that they probably used Scry, Armor, and few other scouting/buff spells. Then you teleport to the site and wait a day for the spellcaster to recharge. A spellcaster out of spells (or with the wrong spells memorized) can be just as ineffective. Heck, at least the Forsaker can still fight!


WHy would a spellcaster waste a Fly spell to cross a ravine/canyon when the ranger/barbarian/other survivor type is just as well versed at creating rope bridges in about an hour?

Unless the encounter is time based (we have to be there NOW), why is it such a bother to do things the 'mundane' way? Especially if this frees up the spellcasters slots for more important spells?

Mechanically, the damage differential is a matter of playing smart. If you ant a good OGL example, play Dragon Star. Every weapon does incredibly high amounts of damage. A 20th level character still fears being hit by larger weapons. Because of this, healing may not get to you in time, if at all. This forces the player to fight smarter. I just don't see the problem with a Forsaker if it is played intelligently.




I love this convo! It's the same as saying 'Why walk a block to the store? I have a car!'.

 

[Crothian]

I love this convo! It's the same as saying 'Why walk a block to the store? I have a car!'.

People are lazy. But more to the point I don't think it occurs to people as much to not do something they can. THey only think of things they can do, not if they should.