What characters are you thinking about running?
Ozymandias79
First Post
Uh, yes, yes, but beware of some players might want to have no connection to your(Don Incognito's) idea and might to want to be from other places so please, no absolutes.
I mean someone might wanna play a deva that lived in Daunton before the exodus to Daunton and has no connection to the exodites.
I can also say I wasn't so keen on the idea and had problem with the goliath worshipping the devas, as I saw that as a more human notion IE human pallbearers instead of goliathian(sp?) ones, as I want the goliaths to keep their primal connections and their ties to the dwarves but then I thought, hey, this doesn't stop me from creating another island/nearland that do just that as there more than one land the races can originate from.
I mean someone might wanna play a deva that lived in Daunton before the exodus to Daunton and has no connection to the exodites.
I can also say I wasn't so keen on the idea and had problem with the goliath worshipping the devas, as I saw that as a more human notion IE human pallbearers instead of goliathian(sp?) ones, as I want the goliaths to keep their primal connections and their ties to the dwarves but then I thought, hey, this doesn't stop me from creating another island/nearland that do just that as there more than one land the races can originate from.
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Don Incognito
First Post
TANGENT TIME
One of the things I REALLY REALLY LIKE about Eberron is the fact that the gods are ambivalent. They are certainly good or bad, but they stay out of human affairs, don't send their representatives down to preach their doctrine, and are difficult to communicate with. The gods of Daunton, I imagine, are just as conspicuously silent. Sure, divine characters can invoke their power and whatnot, but they are just kind of...well, distant. This opens the interpretation that some believe that there are no gods.
Devas throw a wrench in the system. Angel-people that are direct servants of the gods make it very hard for athiests. I attempted to fix the system by offering them an origin.
Just my two cents. Devas (as written) are very closely tied in to the gods of any campaign setting they appear in. If the gods of Daunton are more "hands-off", they may need some tweaking. If they gods of Daunton are more "hands-on", they may work, but I find that such settings always wind up as pale reflections of Forgotten Realms.
One of the things I REALLY REALLY LIKE about Eberron is the fact that the gods are ambivalent. They are certainly good or bad, but they stay out of human affairs, don't send their representatives down to preach their doctrine, and are difficult to communicate with. The gods of Daunton, I imagine, are just as conspicuously silent. Sure, divine characters can invoke their power and whatnot, but they are just kind of...well, distant. This opens the interpretation that some believe that there are no gods.
Devas throw a wrench in the system. Angel-people that are direct servants of the gods make it very hard for athiests. I attempted to fix the system by offering them an origin.
Just my two cents. Devas (as written) are very closely tied in to the gods of any campaign setting they appear in. If the gods of Daunton are more "hands-off", they may need some tweaking. If they gods of Daunton are more "hands-on", they may work, but I find that such settings always wind up as pale reflections of Forgotten Realms.
Lord Sessadore
Explorer
Well, there are a couple problems with that. First, there are already a few PCs whose gods speak to them in some form or another, and second, I would prefer to not remove options from potential players unless we need to.
The existence of devas sent from the gods does not necessarily mean that people now have no doubt of the gods' existence - they might just be exceedingly rare. So rare, in fact, that perhaps the only such devas that exist in the setting are those that happen to be PCs (note that I'm not counting devas from "Devaland" here, because they probably aren't sent directly from their gods
). And, actually, even the fact that "Devaland" exists can be enough for people to doubt the divine origin of devas that just appear, if that's what you want.
From your example with the dwarves, I think it's important to remember that the 'traditional' Mykonos' Sanctuary dwarves and the Valley of Bone dwarves are actually two separate and distinct groups - neither has any real ties to the other, besides the fact that they're the same race. I think that if you tell people that every deva has to have come from Devaland, they won't like that very much. There should be at least two origins for devas that are entirely separate from each other, so that people who don't like one of the origins have something to work with. And a lot of potential players will want something like the PHB2 fluff, because that's the ideas they've had for their deva characters.
About the gods being hands-off, maybe I'm just bringing the Greek mythology base too much into L4W here, but they were pretty hands-on, but mainly with bigger world events. (That's also why there's tons of demigods in Greek mythology, because the Greeks didn't really have sexual morals, and neither did a lot of their Gods.) Now, that doesn't necessarily lead to a Forgotten Realms-like setting, because the Greek gods are ambiguous in a different way - they're not absolute on the good/evil scale. They pretty much act like super powerful humans (and less than mature at times), changing their minds and changing sides often. I think this could be a really cool element to bring into L4W; say, in mid-paragon, the gods might start showing up, but they might be on your side or they might be with your enemies, and they might even switch halfway through an adventure. And, if there's a god showing up on your side, it's pretty much guaranteed that there will be a god showing up on the other side, unless you're just fighting monsters. But even then, most people (like 99.99%) are never ever going to see one of the gods. And most of the time that the gods do actually roam the world, they disguise themselves as normal people. They were hands-on, but to most people they still felt distant, because they never saw the hands. Am I making sense?
One last though - if you can bring back the dead by petitioning Lauto, and there are people who can invoke their god's power in a very real, physical sense, and there are people who can hear the voice of their gods in their heads, how can people possibly deny that there are no gods? Only if they've never seen or heard of these things could I believe that, or they're super-paranoid conspiracy theorists who think it's all a conspiracy and they are out to get them
[/rant]
The existence of devas sent from the gods does not necessarily mean that people now have no doubt of the gods' existence - they might just be exceedingly rare. So rare, in fact, that perhaps the only such devas that exist in the setting are those that happen to be PCs (note that I'm not counting devas from "Devaland" here, because they probably aren't sent directly from their gods
). And, actually, even the fact that "Devaland" exists can be enough for people to doubt the divine origin of devas that just appear, if that's what you want.From your example with the dwarves, I think it's important to remember that the 'traditional' Mykonos' Sanctuary dwarves and the Valley of Bone dwarves are actually two separate and distinct groups - neither has any real ties to the other, besides the fact that they're the same race. I think that if you tell people that every deva has to have come from Devaland, they won't like that very much. There should be at least two origins for devas that are entirely separate from each other, so that people who don't like one of the origins have something to work with. And a lot of potential players will want something like the PHB2 fluff, because that's the ideas they've had for their deva characters.
About the gods being hands-off, maybe I'm just bringing the Greek mythology base too much into L4W here, but they were pretty hands-on, but mainly with bigger world events. (That's also why there's tons of demigods in Greek mythology, because the Greeks didn't really have sexual morals, and neither did a lot of their Gods.) Now, that doesn't necessarily lead to a Forgotten Realms-like setting, because the Greek gods are ambiguous in a different way - they're not absolute on the good/evil scale. They pretty much act like super powerful humans (and less than mature at times), changing their minds and changing sides often. I think this could be a really cool element to bring into L4W; say, in mid-paragon, the gods might start showing up, but they might be on your side or they might be with your enemies, and they might even switch halfway through an adventure. And, if there's a god showing up on your side, it's pretty much guaranteed that there will be a god showing up on the other side, unless you're just fighting monsters. But even then, most people (like 99.99%) are never ever going to see one of the gods. And most of the time that the gods do actually roam the world, they disguise themselves as normal people. They were hands-on, but to most people they still felt distant, because they never saw the hands. Am I making sense?
One last though - if you can bring back the dead by petitioning Lauto, and there are people who can invoke their god's power in a very real, physical sense, and there are people who can hear the voice of their gods in their heads, how can people possibly deny that there are no gods? Only if they've never seen or heard of these things could I believe that, or they're super-paranoid conspiracy theorists who think it's all a conspiracy and they are out to get them
[/rant]
ukingsken
First Post
How long have you been in Rant mode Sess? I didn't see an open tag!
And I totally dig the greek feel. Distant gods who are involved all the time. Theyre just distant by virtue of the fact that theyre capricious and really don't care. It's like having parents who are always there but let you do whatever you want and do whatever they want.
And I totally dig the greek feel. Distant gods who are involved all the time. Theyre just distant by virtue of the fact that theyre capricious and really don't care. It's like having parents who are always there but let you do whatever you want and do whatever they want.
Moon_Goddess
Have I really been on this site for over 20 years!
he opened the rant tag about 3 years ago, finally thought it was time to close it up.
Lord Sessadore
Explorer
[mad ramble]Yeah, parents who don't care ... until you mess with their stuff, and then they're all Smite this and Punish that on your butt [/mad ramble]
[/mad ramble]
Atanatotatos
First Post
I hope we're agreed that, if by some miracle, someone reaches 30th level and wants to kick Aressus's ass and become the new god of war, no one will stand to say it's too big a change to the setting!
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