What did TSR do wrong?

[Andre]

They understood it just fine. They were making extravagant claims and being bullies - as a matter of policy.

I noticed this attitude from the very beginning of TSR - I don't know if Gygax started it, but he made a number of public statements against companies for "stealing" concepts such as Armor Class, Level, and Hit Points (never mind where he got them in the first place). TSR always had a bit of paranoia about having their creation stolen from them. This just got worse as time went on, but was something most fans ignored/put up with, until other problems doomed the company.

 

[Destil]

We listened when the customers told us ... That they buy DUNGEON magazine every two months at a rate twice that of our best selling stand-alone adventures.

This is a pretty interesting observation given current events...

 

[Glyfair]

I noticed this attitude from the very beginning of TSR - I don't know if Gygax started it, but he made a number of public statements against companies for "stealing" concepts such as Armor Class, Level, and Hit Points (never mind where he got them in the first place). TSR always had a bit of paranoia about having their creation stolen from them. This just got worse as time went on, but was something most fans ignored/put up with, until other problems doomed the company.

I've been going over the old issues of The Strategic Review and The Dragon for my review threads. I've covered Gygax's comments in those threads, so I've gotten a sense of this general attitude of the issue.

It doesn't seem that Gygax was horribly concerned about those who created similar systems. In fact, he encouraged it. However, he did have an issue with those trying to actually make money off his "baby." He didn't like those who created products that called themselves D&D products when they never spoke to him. Generally these products were pretty poor, and he often received complaints about some of them (that he had nothing to do with).

He also had an issue with those who would copy their D&D books and just pass them around to their friends. That was definitely an issue in those days and those doing it used many of the same arguments internet pirates do today.

Finally, many of the amateur press publications would actively trash TSR in their pages, especially TSR's position of defending themselves against the above companies. In fact, he dedicated at least one article to defending himself agaist them.

 

[Rothe]

I noticed this attitude from the very beginning of TSR - I don't know if Gygax started it, but he made a number of public statements against companies for "stealing" concepts such as Armor Class, Level, and Hit Points (never mind where he got them in the first place). TSR always had a bit of paranoia about having their creation stolen from them. This just got worse as time went on, but was something most fans ignored/put up with, until other problems doomed the company.

I'd have to agree. TSRs treatment of SSIs customers was also awful after they acquired the company. If I had to use one word describing TSR almost from the get go it would be arrogant.

 

[S'mon]

I'd have to agree. TSRs treatment of SSIs customers was also awful after they acquired the company. If I had to use one word describing TSR almost from the get go it would be arrogant.

While I don't approve of EGG's approach to competitor companies, there's a big difference between hostility to commercial competitors and latter-day TSR's hostility to its own fan base!

 

[Ostlander]

Dungeon and Dragon magazines should have gotten the axe a long time ago really. With the internet, people really don't need flashy mags with pretty artwork, and inflated price tags.

Sites like EnWorld are and have always been a superior alternative to the mags...hence the longevity and the success of those sites.

 

[Thurbane]

As for the many things they did to draw ire, I think they've been documented well so far in this thread: Making the game politically correct by eliminating assassins, half-orcs, and renaming demons, devils and hell (among many other changes). A very hard-line policy about intellectual property that alienated fans. A notable decline in the quality of the product line. Very few products being made for generic setting-free D&D. I know some people were seriously upset at the way their favorite settings (Dragonlance and Planescape) were handled in storyline/metaplot. The books had a tendency to assume you had every other book ever published and would require or refer you to some old out-of-print book to be able to use much of what was in the book you just bought. They turned out lots of lackluster non-D&D products that seemed to take their attention away from D&D (SAGA and Dragon Dice come to mind).

The company was run by non-gamers who hated gamers, and it showed.

That sums it up very well, thanks for that.

 

[Ostlander]

In regards to the elimination of Assassins, half-orcs, and name changing the demons/devils...

TSR caught a lot of crap from the 700 club and such as well. The PC onslaught some of us faced then was in part because of the bad press/image of AD&D. I was PO that they caved to the pressure, but the alternative...having your products pulled from shelves or wackos picketing sellers...

The other comments about TSR and their disdain for their customer base....right on folks! They did hate their fans it seemed.

 

[JustinA]

As someone who was temporarily out of the hobby when TSR eventually went belly up, what did they do that has earned them this general level of animaosity? Was it marketing practices, poor quality products?

TSR did a lot of things wrong.

1. They steadily cheapened the quality of their products. I used to be able to fairly accurately date any 2nd Edition TSR product by looking at the font size and the size of the margins: Both steadily increased over time as the word counts steadily decreased.

2. At one point they went around threatening to sue any fans who put fan-created material up on their websites. (Decades of slowly accumulated fan-lore was actually wiped out of existence during this period. Most of it has never re-appeared publicly, although I retain some small hope that private archives still hold it.)

3. They generally patronized their fanbase. The owners of the company were convinced that the average D&D player was or should be a 12 year old child, and they treated all their customers like 12 year old children. Since the average D&D player is not (and never has been) a 12 year old child, this generally didn't go over well.

That's what they did wrong in terms of satisfying customers (and there are many more examples where that came from). Stupid business decisions were also legion.

1. They repeatedly divided their customer base so that every single release was steadily being marketed towards a smaller and smaller portion of the pie: The most to 2nd Edition was bungled and many fans were left playing 1st Edition. 2nd Edition products were then sub-divided across dozens of product lines. And then they introduced the Players' Options rules which further sub-divided the AD&D fanbase.

2. But what actually killed them in the end, according to all accounts, was their mismanagement of their paperback book division. Basically they treated the book division the same way they treated the RPG division (larger fonts, smaller word counts, not willing to pay to retain or attract talent)... and the book market bit back quicker. TSR got hit with massive amounts of paperback book returns and this essentially pushed them into the bankruptcy that WotC rescued them from.

3. Producing products and then selling them for less than it cost to produce them. (No, seriously, they were apparently doing this a lot.)

This I think is the most telling bit from Ryan Dancey's letter (which I see someone else has linked to): "In today's hypercompetitive market, that's an impossible mentality. At Wizards of the Coast, we pay close attention to the voice of the customer. We ask questions. We listen. We react. So, we spent a whole lot of time and money on a variety of surveys and studies to learn about the people who play role playing games."

What happened to this spirit? Why has WotC turned a deaf ear to its fans?

 

[Maggan]

What happened to this spirit? Why has WotC turned a deaf ear to its fans?

Listening to customers does not mean fulfilling their every wishes.

While the cancellation of Dragon and Dungeon might be seen as proof that WotC is indeed not listening to its fans anymore ...

... there has been many, many fans that have expressed strong interest in a digital intiative. Digital tools, digital content, and so on. And they have been listened too.

I could make a case saying WotC is indeed listening to their customers. But sometimes, some of the customers has to lose out for other customers to get their wish, and that's probably what has happened this time.

I could at the same time make a case saying they didn't listen enough to their customers reading Dragon and Dungeon to make this transition so smooth as it could possibly be.

So they are both listening intently, and turning a deaf ear. At the same time.

/M