What direction will D&D head in?

[hong]

I'm not in the same discussion as you are, Hong. I've already told you that I consider your premise that D&D is an action movie simulator is baloney, and given you a detailed reasoning as to why this is so, yet you're continuing as if it's gospel.

Well, you say that you think D&D is not an action movie simulator, but I fail to see why you would think that. After all, it's not like it's simulating a world where we

play in zero-G, because clearly that's more fun than a game with gravity. Mayor Dragan who the PCs were talking to would suddenly grow three heads when they talked to him, because it's more fun for all the PCs being able to talk to him at once, and for him to respond to them all at once. All travel would be via teleport. Greys would be in the PHB next to Mutant Ninja Turtles and Sonic Hedgehogs (hey, they're all fun).​

now is it?

You still don't have an argument, do you? Your original interjection was an attempt to prove that there was one in answer to my and ProfessorCino's question, and pages down the track you still haven't come up with one.

Well, it would be nice if you could come up with something that didn't boil down to "I don't like action movies like WoW" or "I like thinking too hard about action movies like WoW". You know?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm not in the same discussion as you are, Hong. I've already told you that I consider your premise that D&D is an action movie simulator is baloney, and given you a detailed reasoning as to why this is so, yet you're continuing as if it's gospel.

One of the primary classes of D&D over all editions has been the Fighter. A considerable amount of spells deal with injuring and killing foes, and another set of spells deals with healing people. Rogues/Thieves always seemed to have a back-stabbing component.
How does all this not imply a strong relation to "action movie"?

Maybe it's not Crank, Matrix or Shoot'em'up action but more Ronin or Heat, but it's certainly a lot less close to romance, thriller, mystery, comedy, tragedy or crime movies, or a documentation.

 

[rounser]

Well, you say that you think D&D is not an action movie simulator, but I fail to see why you would think that. After all, it's not like it's simulating a world where we

play in zero-G, because clearly that's more fun than a game with gravity. Mayor Dragan who the PCs were talking to would suddenly grow three heads when they talked to him, because it's more fun for all the PCs being able to talk to him at once, and for him to respond to them all at once. All travel would be via teleport. Greys would be in the PHB next to Mutant Ninja Turtles and Sonic Hedgehogs (hey, they're all fun).

now is it?

Taking things out of context might make you think you're clever, but you're not. It just highlights all the more that you don't have anything credible to argue.

Well, it would be nice if you could come up with something that didn't boil down to "I don't like action movies like WoW" or "I like thinking too hard about action movies like WoW". You know?

You've got a fixation, here. I think we should talk about you, and your problem with what you think D&D is - these other media, and other games. I'm talking about D&D, and it's not a movie, nor an MMORPG.

If you want to argue that, I've already struck your simplistic idea down earlier, and you haven't replied to it - go seek out the post.

 

[rounser]

How does all this not imply a strong relation to "action movie"?

It is related, but it's also related just as strongly to things like fantasy novels, worldsims, MMORPGs, CRPGs, theatre, wargaming, worldbuilding, mythology etc.

Hong wants you to believe that D&D's spec is an action movie simulation, which is nonsense. As I said, argued in more detail, a page or two ago, and am now repeating myself because he's not into making sense and arguing a point when he can just try and go for a wisecrack instead. Go look at that.

 

[Steely Dan]

If you want combat, then, why don't you break out the foam swords and chain shirts, and go it at?

Because then you will be LARPing, and look even lamer than standard role-playing.

 

[hong]

Taking things out of context might make you think you're clever, but you're not. It just highlights all the more that you don't have anything credible to argue.

So you keep saying.

You've got a fixation, here. I think we should talk about you, and your problem with what you think D&D is - these other media, and other games. I'm talking about D&D, and it's not a movie, nor an MMORPG.

Well, I certainly don't have a problem with people talking about me.

Everyone, please talk about me!

But barring that, nobody said anything about D&D being a movie or an MMO. It just happens to work quite well as a simulation of a movie or MMO. The more rules-mechanical bits, anyway.

If you want to argue that, I've already struck your simplistic idea down earlier, and you haven't replied to it - go seek out the post.

So you keep saying.

 

[hong]

It is related, but it's also related just as strongly to things like fantasy novels, worldsims, MMORPGs, CRPGs, theatre, wargaming, worldbuilding, mythology etc.

Certainly. But the path of least resistance is to treat D&D as simulating an action movie like WoW.

 

[rounser]

But barring that, nobody said anything about D&D being a movie or an MMO. It just happens to work quite well as a simulation of a movie or MMO. The more rules-mechanical bits, anyway.

And that's just one way you can approach D&D. There are others, just as valid, but you were attempting to pretend that D&D IS a movie or MMORPG simulation, and it isn't...or at least, it wasn't. Maybe it is in Hong's campaign, maybe it is the most easily supported form of the game as of 4E, but D&D didn't used to be this way. Arguably it shouldn't be this way.

Certainly. But the path of least resistance is to treat D&D as simulating an action movie like WoW.

Maybe the new ruleset has forced this situation. D&D definitely wasn't this narrow before, and had as much (if not more) in common with novels, mythology, wargames, improvised theatre, CRPGs and so forth as it did with Indiana Jones.

But I'm not sure I agree with your premise, either, because D&D's newest problems with making sense are only dimly related to Hollywood. That's just a convenient excuse for handwaving - "oh, they handwaved it, so can we". Not really you can't, they're a totally different media, and can get away with different things. Likewise, surely there are things D&D can handwave that Hollywood can't...but they just don't spring to mind at the moment.

 

[hong]

And that's just one way you can approach D&D. There are others, just as valid, but you were attempting to pretend that D&D IS a movie or MMORPG simulation, and it isn't...or at least, it wasn't. Maybe it is in Hong's campaign, maybe it is the most easily supported form of the game as of 4E, but D&D didn't used to be this way. Arguably it shouldn't be this way.

Of course it should be this way. Just look at how popular action movies such as WoW are. If you want to do something more niche, like bake bread or something, then you house rule.

Maybe the new ruleset has forced this situation. D&D definitely wasn't this narrow before, and had as much (if not more) in common with novels, mythology, wargames, improvised theatre, CRPGs and so forth as it did with Indiana Jones.

Which was to its detriment. It's about time that D&D got dragged into the 21st century.

But I'm not sure I agree with your premise, either, because D&D's newest problems with making sense are only dimly related to Hollywood. That's just a convenient excuse for handwaving - "oh, they handwaved it, so can we". Not really you can't, they're a totally different media, and can get away with different things.

You can get away with exactly the same things in both mediae. It just requires you not to think too hard about fantasy.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Of course it should be this way. Just look at how popular action movies such as WoW are. If you want to do something more niche, like bake bread or something, then you house rule.

"If you don't want all combat all the time, make it up yourself."

Yep, that's a great way to get me into a game...

You can get away with exactly the same things in both mediae. It just requires you not to think too hard about fantasy.

I always thought that one of the marvellous advantages of tabletop RPGs was that things made some amount of sense. It's not like WoW, where things... tend to just sort of happen, sometimes, and you just accept it.

Handwaving is detrimental to any kind of immersion. Not only that, but it makes things inconsistent. If there are glaring inconsistencies in the world, how am I supposed to expect the world to react to my actions?