What direction will D&D head in?

[rounser]

Of course it should be this way. Just look at how popular action movies such as WoW are. If you want to do something more niche, like bake bread or something, then you house rule.

D&D is it's own thing. Or was it's own thing, maybe. If I want WoW, or an action movie, or M:tG, or Quokka Soccer, I'll go do that.* D&D should work at being a better D&D, and what it does, not aping Hollywood and Blizzard.

Which was to its detriment. It's about time that D&D got dragged into the 21st century.

If it keeps aping other media, the 21st century will take care of D&D alright. It cannot compete with them at doing their thing, because they already do their thing best. It can borrow ideas (just like they did from it), but within reason.

D&D can do other things better, but it needs the ruleset to support that. Neither Hollywood nor WoW can compete with D&D for creative expression, for instance....that's just a simple example, there are many more I'm sure.

You can get away with exactly the same things in both mediae. It just requires you not to think too hard about fantasy.

When there's an elephant in the room courtesy of some poorly designed rules with regard to fluff and logic (and by that I mean the logic of a believable world, not game design logic), then that goes beyond the realm of "not thinking too hard" and into the realm of "trying really hard to ignore this sore thumb of a concept."

*: Well, okay, not the quokka soccer. That'd be cruel.

 

[hong]

"If you don't want all combat all the time, make it up yourself."

Yep, that's a great way to get me into a game...

Well, I guess you happen to be niche.

I always thought that one of the marvellous advantages of tabletop RPGs was that things made some amount of sense. It's not like WoW, where things... tend to just sort of happen, sometimes, and you just accept it.

Handwaving is detrimental to any kind of immersion. Not only that, but it makes things inconsistent. If there are glaring inconsistencies in the world, how am I supposed to expect the world to react to my actions?

It will react to your actions in exactly the same way that an action movie like WoW would react.

 

[hong]

D&D is it's own thing. Or was it's own thing, maybe. If I want WoW, or an action movie, or M:tG, or Quokka Soccer, I'll go do that.* D&D should work at being a better D&D, and what it does, not aping Hollywood and Blizzard.

D&D is working at being a better D&D, and that is by delivering what the majority of ppl want.

If it keeps aping other media, the 21st century will take care of D&D alright. It cannot compete with them at doing their thing, because they already do their thing best.

Ah yes, like supers RPGs are dead because superhero comics do it so much better.

D&D can do other things better, but it needs the ruleset to support that. Neither Hollywood nor WoW can compete with D&D for creative expression, for instance....that's just a simple example, there are many more I'm sure.

The ruleset supports creative expression just fine, within the context of an action movie framework.

When there's an elephant in the room courtesy of some poorly designed rules with regard to fluff and logic (and by that I mean the logic of a believable world, not game design logic), then that goes beyond the realm of "not thinking too hard" and into the realm of "trying really hard to ignore this sore thumb of a concept."

Clearly you need to watch better action movies.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Well, I guess you happen to be niche.

I doubt that. But there's really only one way to find out, and that's to wait and see how things with 4e pan out, in the future.

It will react to your actions in exactly the same way that an action movie like WoW would react.

So everything is cliche. Wow, that's original. Awesome. I'm sure that won't get boring ever.

 

[hong]

So everything is cliche. Wow, that's original. Awesome. I'm sure that won't get boring ever.

You know, just because something simulates action movie logic, that doesn't mean it must fail to simulate reality in those spots where reality and action movies intersect.

 

[rounser]

D&D is working at being a better D&D, and that is by delivering what the majority of ppl want.

Not necessarily, it's also what WOTC thinks will sell them things. There is some overlap, but WOTC might get the "what people want" part wrong, just for starters. And it's not necessarily in their best interest to give people exactly what they want, because they might stop buying.

Ah yes, like supers RPGs are dead because superhero comics do it so much better.

Is there a Supers RPG anywhere near as big as D&D? Bueller?

The ruleset supports creative expression just fine, within the context of an action movie framework.

Too bad if you're looking for an outlet for the Great American Fantasy Novel, like so many DMs seem to be attempting to do in past editions. That door just shut. You have to be Spielberg, like it or not. That's a giant step backward for D&D. And it doesn't have to be that way - it's just a case of bad, narrow rules if that's the case.

Clearly you need to watch better action movies.

Yeah, whatever Hong, clearly you need to go soak your head. I'm quite looking forward to Dark Knight at the moment, actually. (And yes, that is a good example of one type of media adapting themes from another. Peter Jackson's adaptation of LotR to the screen is another - he knew that just because the novel handwaved something doesn't mean his movie can, because the media are different.)

 

[hong]

No, it's what WOTC thinks will sell them things.

Yes. So?

Big difference. There is some overlap, but WOTC might get the "what people want" part wrong, just for starters. And it's not necessarily in their best interest to give people what they want, because they might stop buying.

Your critique of the foundations of a modern capitalist service economy is intriguing, and I wish to subscribe to your blog.

Is there a Supers RPG anywhere near as big as D&D? Bueller?

Is there a supers MMO anywhere near as big as WoW?

Too bad if you're looking for an outlet for the Great American Fantasy Novel, like so many DMs seem to be attempting to do in past editions. That door just shut.

Well, life wasn't meant to be easy. Besides, it is just as easy to railroad in 4E as it is in 3E, so you can still write a novel for your players if you want. It will simply be informed by action movie logic as opposed to the trials and tribulations of the Joad family.

You have to be Spielberg, like it or not. That's a step backward for D&D. And it doesn't have to be that way - it's just a case of bad, narrow rules if that's the case.

It is a case of giving customers what they want. Of course, in a imperfectly competitive market where not all suppliers and consumers are homogeneous, some mismatching of demand and supply may be expected.

Yeah, whatever Hong, clearly you need to go soak your head. I'm quite looking forward to Dark Knight at the moment, actually.

I'm quite looking forward to Lego Batman.

 

[Steely Dan]

Too bad if you're looking for an outlet for the Great American Fantasy Novel, like so many DMs seem to be attempting to do in past editions. That door just shut.

Not as far as 4th Ed goes, my ongoing (3 years) Planescape campaign has recently converted fully to 4th Ed, and it still has the epic novel feel we're into.

Actually, we like it all, a mix of epic novel, film, and comic book. I've always been able to cover all of those bases with any edition – nothing has changed.

You can have a campaign in any edition of this wacky game that emulates whatever you like – book, film, comic book, video game etc.

 

[hong]

To be honest, I don't know of anyone whose D&D campaign is informed by the trials and tribulations of the Joad family.

 

[rounser]

I'm quite looking forward to Lego Batman.

I got a copy of Lego Star Wars recently based on your comments, actually. Does Lego Star Wars II improve things? I found it okay to entertain visitors when played two player, but it doesn't seem very compelling one player. 1945 drew me in more (which I got from the same bargain bin).

It does seem to strike a sweet spot where they can take their attention off of designing pretty graphics, though, and concentrate on gameplay.