What do you like about 4E? (not a battle in the Edition Wars :^) )

[Kinneus]

1) Powers, especially At-Will powers. One thing that always bugged me about playing D&D was the patheticness of playing a level 1 wizard. Cast your two spells today, and well, guess it's crossbow time. Screw that! Merlin didn't use no crossbow! At-Will powers actually let a mage be a mage. For Martial types, it fixes the tediousness of "okay, I hit it with my sword." I never played a fighter prior to 4e, and I don't think I ever will. Just doesn't appeal to me.
And, while I know that we're supposed to be praising 4e, I was tickled pink to find that in Pathfinder, you can cast 0-level spells indefinitely. I love that this is catching on!

2) The ease of designing encounters. Heck, not just the ease, but the fun. One of the things 4e does really well is relieving the burden of the DM. If they hadn't made it easier to DM, I'm not sure I'd still be playing D&D today.

3) How easy it is to reskin almost anything, and how it is in fact actively encouraged by the game developers themselves. Any monster that can't be reskinned can be built from scratch almost as easily (though, admittedly, it did take them a while to get the monster math right).

4) While I've since fallen out of love with it... the Warlock class. It was just one of those things that made me pick up the book and say, "Wow, cool!" I think the reason I started playing D&D, if I'm really honest with myself, is because I just wanted to play a Warlock.

5) Along that vein, the balance of the classes, aided by the role system. I love how PHB 2 characters are roughly as powerful and awesome as PHB 1 characters. The Goliath Barbarian isn't stronger or weaker than the Halfling Rogue. They're both awesome in their own, unique special ways. They've done a great job of coming up with cool new classes with cool new mechanics that don't overshadow previous choices.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Some of the fluff/description in the new Dungeon, and a lot of the maps.

The basic idea of healing surges.


RC

 

[Calzone]

I must say I really enjoy how easy it is to gauge encounter difficulty. I run a game with a party of 2 (plus 1 DMPC to give me a little larger xp budget). Its nice to be able to eyeball an encounter by group roles and total xp and have a good idea of how the party will handle it.

Consistent combat systems among classes are also excellent. One of my characters is playing D&D for the first time, and is playing a spellcaster. I like how he doesn't operate mechanically any different than the other player (a barbarian), so he's had an easier time learning the system.

 

[Vartan]

Shouldn't this be in 4E rules?

I asked myself the same question when I wrote my initial post, but I didn't want to limit the scope of the discussion to rules alone: I want us to talk about anything we like about 4E, be it artwork, rules, the game's "concept" or a combination of all three. I'm especially impressed with the quality of general gaming guidance that the core rulebooks intersperse amongst their "crunchy bits," and I think the ongoing development of skill challenge design bridges the gap between rules and roleplay. Of course, the "General RPG Discussion" board also has the benefit of casting a wide net with which to catch discussion points...but I think the topic itself is about more than just rules.

I see in your sig that you identify yourself as a "non-DDI 4E DM." I'm really interested to hear your opinions on 4th Edition's strengths, rules-related or otherwise. DDI is one of my favorite things about 4E but I think the game stands well on its own: what do you like most about 4E?

I like to see all my players get 'something' every level they gain, be it new powers, feats or level bonus.

I like the fact level 1 characters feel heroic and hardy.

I like that all classes get a fair share of the spotlight.

I like the game element of the battle system and the relevance of terrain.

I like the philosophy: ' This is about fun. Say yes. '

I like having a defined structure whereby my players can become more powerful and gain experience by other means than just slaughtering monsters.

I like having a clear structure to design encounters.

I love shopping for monsters and traps with my xp budget!

I like the Three actions in a Turn system and the simple 10+ Saving Throw system.

I like that all (most) of the rules slot nicely into my head and that I haven't had to reference a book or look up a rule during a play session in over a year.

I could go on, but basically, I like it.

JBear, I'm out of Experience Points for the day but you deserve one. Your first three observations are spot on: as a player and as a DM I like seeing regular character advancement rewards, I like the fact that 1st level characters can do more than one or two things, and I think the classes are really well balanced. One thing I don't particularly like about the class system is the assignment of "roles," but I have a feeling that if the game omitted mention of those roles we would still find ways to make fun, formidable adventuring parties. Heck, I've seen more than one high-level LFR table comprised of 5 strikers and 1 leader rock the house.

As for the "say yes" mentality: it's hard to talk about without drawing comparisons to other editions of D&D or trends that are embodied by competing systems...but yes! With a balanced game system, a DM who is quick on his or her feet and a group of solid roleplayers it's easy to say yes.

1) Powers, especially At-Will powers. One thing that always bugged me about playing D&D was the patheticness of playing a level 1 wizard. Cast your two spells today, and well, guess it's crossbow time. Screw that! Merlin didn't use no crossbow! At-Will powers actually let a mage be a mage. For Martial types, it fixes the tediousness of "okay, I hit it with my sword." I never played a fighter prior to 4e, and I don't think I ever will. Just doesn't appeal to me.
And, while I know that we're supposed to be praising 4e, I was tickled pink to find that in Pathfinder, you can cast 0-level spells indefinitely. I love that this is catching on!

I don't want to comment too extensively on previous D&D editions but, based on my experience, I can say that playing a spellcaster has traditionally been a "pay your dues and you'll rule the world after level 9" endeavor. I miss the uber-power of high-level spells from previous editions but I like the idea of playing a 1st level Wizard whose lot in life isn't to fire off one Magic Missile or Sleep spell per day while he waits for the day when he'll be able to fry entire armies. It's a good trade-off. I'm not familiar with Pathfinder but I'm familiar with the rules upon which it is based and I think players will really appreciate the extra 0-level spells

3) How easy it is to reskin almost anything, and how it is in fact actively encouraged by the game developers themselves. Any monster that can't be reskinned can be built from scratch almost as easily (though, admittedly, it did take them a while to get the monster math right).

QFT. The first battle of my current campaign was between the PCs and a group of brigands led by the spoiled scion of a noble house. Instead of starting with a blank slate I pulled a few monsters, changed their flavor text and tweaked their powers and...voila! I had a setting-appropriate, mechanically balanced combat encounter. Granted, you can do this in any RPG, but 4E makes it so darn easy that I feel encouraged to re-skin and otherwise touch up my bad guys.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

While I'm iffy on the mechanics, the basic concepts behind healing surges and skill challenges are great - especially when used together. Healing surges allows you to give the player punishments for failing that aren't horrible and crippling, but also aren't lightly ignored and dusted off. Skill challenges in theory takes the standard dramatic scene and not only gives ALL the players something to do (as opposed to the one character who specializes at this doing everything), it also gives it that liiiiiiiiiiiittle bit of crunch that gets the players much more involved. SWSE's printed rules on skill challenges, for example, is fantastic.

 

[Voadam]

I like healing surges and nondivine healing classes. I like not having a dependence on magic healing and particularly clerics in D&D.

I like monster roles.

I like the monster stat creation guidelines.

I like the class balance.

I like the decreased swinginess in combat.

I like the design that avoids mechanically crippling suboptimal choices.

I like skill consolidation.

I like the straightforwardness of skill training and calculation.

I like the advice for three items plus enough gold for a fourth for high level character creation.

I like that rogue and ranger bonus damage is not dependent on enemy types.

I like the class role concept (at least for defenders, strikers, leaders)

I like the decent starting hp for 1st level characters.

I like save ends effects.

I like encounter powers.

I like at wills for everybody.

I like that many dailies have a miss effect or an encounter long duration.

I like undead going for healing surges instead of levels.

I like the short rest/long rest mechanic.

I like the absence of old edition spell resistance.

I like that there is an option to take out the magical plusses and still run baseline D&D adventures.

 

[Vartan]

While I'm iffy on the mechanics, the basic concepts behind healing surges and skill challenges are great - especially when used together. Healing surges allows you to give the player punishments for failing that aren't horrible and crippling, but also aren't lightly ignored and dusted off.

I could definitely make more use of this. Running a less combat-heavy game I I have a hard time getting my PCs worried about the amount of surges they have remaining (granted, they're pretty awesome) and incorporating this into more appropriate skill challenges is something I should do to make them sweat a bit more.

Skill challenges in theory takes the standard dramatic scene and not only gives ALL the players something to do (as opposed to the one character who specializes at this doing everything), it also gives it that liiiiiiiiiiiittle bit of crunch that gets the players much more involved. SWSE's printed rules on skill challenges, for example, is fantastic.

I'm glad to hear skill challenges are sneaking into other games. I hear a lot of people say (in so many words) that "D&D is for bashing in monsters heads and taking their stuff, if you want anything else you should look into another game." I think the 4E skill challenge style could work in a number of other games I've played.

I like healing surges and nondivine healing classes. I like not having a dependence on magic healing and particularly clerics in D&D.

I like monster roles.

I like the monster stat creation guidelines.

I like the class balance.

I like the decreased swinginess in combat.

I like the design that avoids mechanically crippling suboptimal choices.

I like skill consolidation.

I like the straightforwardness of skill training and calculation.

I like the advice for three items plus enough gold for a fourth for high level character creation.

I like that rogue and ranger bonus damage is not dependent on enemy types.

I like the class role concept (at least for defenders, strikers, leaders)

I like the decent starting hp for 1st level characters.

I like save ends effects.

I like encounter powers.

I like at wills for everybody.

I like that many dailies have a miss effect or an encounter long duration.

I like undead going for healing surges instead of levels.

I like the short rest/long rest mechanic.

I like the absence of old edition spell resistance.

I like that there is an option to take out the magical plusses and still run baseline D&D adventures.

Great list! Not everything on your list is something I like, but it's definitely given me a lot to mull over.

Thanks for chiming in ya'll!

 

[MarauderX]

Speed. I like the time saved as a DM in creating adventures as well as a faster paced in-game time. Just playing DDO shows how many crazy buffs we used to calculate in 3.5... now we have time for multiple encounters at higher levels.

 

[N0Man]

I like monster roles.

I like the ease of modifying monsters to change their levels, swap around powers and customize them in various ways.

I like that that healers have been made fun to play.

I like that classes other than casters have more interesting combat options.

I like that at low levels, I actually know when a character is in danger of being killed, rather than abruptly being killed in a single blow without warning.

I like that DM'ing has been made easier and more fun.

I like that combat has been made more tactical and fun.

I like that the streamlining of skills means that there aren't a bunch of junk skills that rarely or never come up in most games.

I like that the classes that get the least skills get more skills than they previously did, and contribute something more besides combat.

I like at-will powers and never being completely tapped out and being forced to do nothing but basic attacks.

The 4E DMG... filled with great advice and helps make the core philosophies in the game design more understandable and appreciated.

Great advice and encouragement in the core rules on modifying and re-flavoring aspects of the game to make it more suited for your group.

I'm sure there are a ton that I'll think of later.

 

[the Jester]

Skill challenges are potentially full of awesome, but need a good setup and a worthwhile pass/fail discrepancy. Also, I think they often work best when you tweak the rules- some skill challenges might last weeks or months if they are fundamentally diplomatic, some might allow any number of failures but increasingly bad results, etc.

I like how quick and easy dm prep is. Heck, I've run a module from BECMI and converted on the fly it's so easy (just keep page 184 of the DMG open and you can often convert monsters on the fly).

I like per-encounter abilities and I like that everyone has cool options every round, even when just using at will abilities.

I love love love monster creation.

The 4e artifact system, although not my favorite take on them, is really damn cool.