What do you think of poison in d20

[Psychic Warrior]

I like the 3e mechanic but don't like how it breaks down at higher levels. Most poisons have Fort DC saves that are less than 18. Well, by 15th level most fighters are going to yawn at that even if they take 2d6 Con or Str damage. Because they know that a little healing or spell will fix them up right away. That's why I use the variant rule we created for Poisoner's Handbook that does hp damage every round in addition to ability damage. It makes poisons much more deadly and a reason to be feared. It's interesting to watch the party force the cleric to prepare slow poison and neutralize poison multiple times.

I have never seen a 15th level character 'yawn' at 2d6 CON or STR damage. Especially when it happens in the middle of combat and they are either useless (due to vastly reduced damage) or too fragile (due to HP loss) to stay in the fight. Also there is the added threat that if something can poison you once it can poison you again. I do agree that higher DCs are needed and when I read the DMG's poison list I assumed it was just a starting point and not the be-all end-all definitive lists of poisons. HP damage can easily be worked into poisons but, for my game, I don't see the need yet (although it could be a real surprise to spring onthe PCs in the future).

 

[Pants]

I like both - I prefer d20/3e's immediate onset (as well as the ability score damage), but I also like 2e's hp damage.

Ditto.
I like 3e/d20's version better (for lethality and variety), but I have a certain softspot for 2e damage-over-time mechanic.

 

[frankthedm]

I like poison that gives status affects and penaties, not simply ability damage. Also i like a lot of saves over a longer period of time, with the first save being made at least a round AFTER being poisoned, preferably a minute. After the first save, additional saves occure after a specified time, with a certain number of saves required based on how nasty the poison is.

First save failed? fatigued.
Second? Exhausted.
Third? add in 'entangled' penaties from everything going numb.
Fourth? K.O.
Fifth? Death

Some poisons add or ommit steps.

A few save or die poisons would be ok.

its funny how ability damage makes players run back to town.

 

[Gez]

The one thing I reproach to D&D poisons is that they're still bland.

I want more realistic poisons -- like poisons that causes someone to just sleep (without having for that to drive said person comatose through the loss of 36d12 Charisma).

Poisons that would paralyzes, stuns, daze, even blind. There are lots of conditions. And while the instantly/1 minute later thing is good for venoms of all kind, I'd like some poisons with onset times longer. IRL, there's a mushroom that is 100% lethal, but was considered comestible for a long time, because its poison takes several months before kicking in.

But nooooo. All poisons do one thing and only one thing, ability damage now and ability damage 60 seconds later.

Except for those drow poisonned crossbow bolts.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The one thing I reproach to D&D poisons is that they're still bland.

I want more realistic poisons -- like poisons that causes someone to just sleep (without having for that to drive said person comatose through the loss of 36d12 Charisma).

But there are currently poisons whose initial and secondary damage is simply "Unconsciousness." Expanding on that list to get the exact poison you want is a DM's job!

As for poisons with longer onset times and potentially longer-reaching effects, D&D already includes that. It's just that, in D&D parlance, they're called "Diseases." So, use the same mechanic with just a couple serial numbers filed off, and you're good to go.

 

[the Jester]

The 3e method of poison is far superior to the old save or take some damage or save or die methods. It keeps poisons a real danger regardless of your hps.

 

[Gothmog]

I like the 3e mechanic but don't like how it breaks down at higher levels. Most poisons have Fort DC saves that are less than 18. Well, by 15th level most fighters are going to yawn at that even if they take 2d6 Con or Str damage. Because they know that a little healing or spell will fix them up right away.

Yep, 3e poisons and diseases by the books have no bite to them after 10th level, for pretty much any character or class. In reality, even your most seasoned fighter will be careful around a rattlesnake, due to not wanting to get poisoned. So what I did was make poison and disease saves CON checks rather than Fort saves, and lower the save DCs by 1/3rd. This keeps poisons and diseases a danger at all levels, but also doesn't completely screw the low-level character. Feats like Great Fortitude, Poison Resistance, and Disease Resistance still affect the CON check. I also make my poisons do more than just ability damage, with such affects as nausea, vertigo, blindness, tactile hallucinations, etc.

Yes, I know this breaks the "heroic" stereotype mold D&D subscribes to, but I want poisons and diseases to be things to be feared and protected against, not just "eh, my +16 Fort save can handle it." A trip into the sewers becomes frightening to my PCs now, and charging an emplacement of orc archers with poisoned arrows is basically suicide.

 

[Ghostwind]

Yep, 3e poisons and diseases by the books have no bite to them after 10th level, for pretty much any character or class. In reality, even your most seasoned fighter will be careful around a rattlesnake, due to not wanting to get poisoned. So what I did was make poison and disease saves CON checks rather than Fort saves, and lower the save DCs by 1/3rd. This keeps poisons and diseases a danger at all levels, but also doesn't completely screw the low-level character. Feats like Great Fortitude, Poison Resistance, and Disease Resistance still affect the CON check. I also make my poisons do more than just ability damage, with such affects as nausea, vertigo, blindness, tactile hallucinations, etc.

Yes, I know this breaks the "heroic" stereotype mold D&D subscribes to, but I want poisons and diseases to be things to be feared and protected against, not just "eh, my +16 Fort save can handle it." A trip into the sewers becomes frightening to my PCs now, and charging an emplacement of orc archers with poisoned arrows is basically suicide.

Exactly. I've been toying around with working up a new less-lethal mechanic that works for all levels and you've given me a great idea.

 

[Storminator]

I ran Hall of the Fire Giant King for 3e, as adapted by someone here.

I looked at the drow poison and said, "no one's going to fail a DC 15 Fort save at 14th level..."

Then the rogue failed 2 saves in the same round, and took 2d6 CON damage, for a total of ... 12 CON. Dead.

And for some reason, everyone was really worried about the drow after that.

PS

 

[satori01]

I like the 3e mechanic but don't like how it breaks down at higher levels. Most poisons have Fort DC saves that are less than 18. Well, by 15th level most fighters are going to yawn at that even if they take 2d6 Con or Str damage. Because they know that a little healing or spell will fix them up right away.

Last Sunday I had an Totem Warrior(good fort saves), go down from failing the posion saving throw from a cr 3 monster. Failed the save took 6 points of con damage, and died. The Save DC was 15 and he is 11th level with good fort saves and a 16 Con.

Another character blew a hero point and allowed him to try to save again, he failed a second time.

Really brought home the point that a lot of low level monsters can take down more powerful creatures, and that abillity damage, especially Con makes any creature a menance.