What do you think of the Duskblade?

[wayne62682]

I personally like it but I really hate the fact that WotC doesn't give you any sort of rules to determine which NEW spells to add to the Duskblade spell list outside the PHB and PHB2.

<snip>

Currently I had to painstakingly go through every spell from every WotC and Paizo product to look for spells that I can add to the Duskblade spell list. I did a half-ass job because, seriously, WotC should've had this already prepared for me. It's ridiculous I have to do this myself.

Umm.. that's just it. They don't want you to add any new spells to the Duskblade's list, because adding neat spells like Haste or Wraithstrike would overpower the class, or so they claim :\

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Its always amusing to me the great lengths 3.5 designers have gone to to emulate the simple effectiveness of the 1E Elven Fighter/MagicUser. We have probably 100 or so pages of rules from various splats and corebooks all trying to do fix what d20 multi-classing rules broke: a competetive spell-casting multi-classed character.

Just an observation.

That said, I think that if you favor high-level play, then the Duskblade is a viable option, with enough options at level 12 and higher to keep the character interesting in play. If you favor low-to-mid level games, the class seems a bit of a lame duck, once his few spells are expended he's just a fighter without all the cool feats.

I totally agree, but many would argue that the F/M (even in 2e when they couldn't wear most armors) was too powerful.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Just to check, you are looking at their complete spell list (at the very end of the class description, not the spell section of the PHB2), right?

Yes, I was looking at the full list. I didn't have time to double check them out, but I did a while ago and I recall something like 3 or 4 touch spells in the list. Shocking grasp and vampiric touch the two that come off the top of my head.

If you mean Extra Spell, I think it was confirmed that you can't use that feat to grab spells from outside your class list.

Hmm, I didn't know that. Is that in the errata or just an enworld forum?

 

[DM-Rocco]

Temp hps... from the same source do not stack.

Mike

I think you might be basing your info on things like Bulls STR, which is an enhancement bonus and the only bonuses that stack are dodge and unnamed. The vampiric touch spell does not have a source, so it is unnamed. IMO it would stand to reason that such a spell wouldn't work on undead, but since it doesn't have a type either, it does.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Really? I count seven:

0: Touch of Fatigue
1: Chill Touch, Shocking Grasp
2: Ghoul Touch, Touch of Idiocy
3: Dispelling Touch, Vampiric Touch

None above 3rd level, though, so I guess it gets to be a problem for the higher level 'blade ... Still, at low levels, it's a significant fraction of their available spells.

Well, I stand corrected. Although, I was guessing from memory, and I didn't look at the 0th level spells just cause they are usually like 1 point of damage or a minor effect, so for me, that is 6.

Anyway, I guess I would like to see some 4th and 5th level touch spells and maybe one or two more lower level spells. I guess my point is that for a class feature that is so much apart of the class you are limited in its use because of spell selections.

Don't get me wrong, those are good spells, it would just be nice to see a bit more of a selection.

Maybe it is enough, when I start playing I'm sure I'll change my tune.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I totally agree, but many would argue that the F/M (even in 2e when they couldn't wear most armors) was too powerful.

Aww, heck yeah! The 3e system didn't break it, it was broken to begin with.

 

[DM-Rocco]

I personally like it but I really hate the fact that WotC doesn't give you any sort of rules to determine which NEW spells to add to the Duskblade spell list outside the PHB and PHB2. So far, most touch spells, small range spells and small area spells, and a few miscellaneous stuff were the guidelines.

Where did you see those guidelines and do you still have a list of the spells that you researched?

 

[rgard]

Sorry to disagree but,

Stacking applies to named bonuses. Unnamed bonuses do stack. And hit points are not 'bonuses', they are ... well, hit points. And even if they are consider a bonus, (which they are not) they are not a 'named' bonus - temporary is not a proper name. It is clear what is a bonus because the word bonus is included - Inherent bonus, luck bonus, enhancement bonus, etc.

You are absolutely correct.

 

[Mort]

You are absolutely correct.

again - how do you get around:

Per the SRD: Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

Vampiric touch is not a healing spell, it grants temporary HP's for 1 hour. So 2 (or more) on the same target = overlap, they do not stack.

 

[Kestrel]

Prefer the Mageblade, but the Duskblade ain't bad.