What do you think of the Duskblade?

[Razz]

Umm.. that's just it. They don't want you to add any new spells to the Duskblade's list, because adding neat spells like Haste or Wraithstrike would overpower the class, or so they claim :\

First of all, Haste is in the PHB and wasn't added to the Duskblade so it'll stay that way and should.

Second, why is it fair for Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerors/Wizards to constantly have more and more spells and, technically, making them more and more powerful by the book but the Duskblade has to remain static and never-upgrading? That's not fair nor is it balanced. What do you tell the Duskblade player when he goes "Hey! That Sorceror casted Ray of Clumsiness, I can cast Ray of Enfeeblement. They're close enough, why can't that be on my spell list too? It's clearly a Duskblade spell!"

 

[Razz]

Where did you see those guidelines and do you still have a list of the spells that you researched?

It was in the PHB2 under the blurb for Duskblades, after their Class Feature explanations. Can't remember exactly where. I'm currently at work.

I do have the list of spells and can post them here when I get home. It's not perfect, and some spells that should've been on there probably are not and some spells that I did put on the spell list probably shouldn't be there. I did the best I could following the guidelines in PHB2 and the spells they have on their spell lists.

But this is what happens when D&D professional creators are lax on their work and a full-time working, part-time college student who's married has to do the work that should've been done by them. :\

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Taht is a problem, for sure. But in my games the ability of clerics and druids to reach into every single book every singel day and pick out spells has become a great gboost to their power. Sure, A wizard and sorceror can do so to a much much mroe limited extent, but the clerics and druids benefit most from improved spell access.

As for limited casting types like duskblade, Warmage and Behuiler, I look at their spell list and it is good enough, seriously. Sure, a player wuld like more spells, of course, but I see not real peoblems with thier lists. If a duskblade does not like the spell list they have, then play a standard fighter wizard or some such. Addingspells to any of the fixed lists is problematical, though I would agree to let the duskblade choose one touch spell to add to their lists at each level when they gain new spell levels after 1st level, much like the beguiler and warmage can add spells. But I stil don't think they actually NEED it.

 

[DreadArchon]

I like all four PHB II classes. I've worked out a Duskblade Dragon Disciple build that I want to try, but nobody in my area runs D&D, so meh.

The only Duskblade I ever threw at the party was horribly suboptimal, but he still did a LOT to them. I still don't think it's overpowered, though.

 

[Felon]

One has stopped "to give the matter some consideration." And one has found, following such consideration, that the following is true:

Too many spells per day.

Sounds like you need to go back and mainate on the whole "lots of low-level spell slots just saves you some wand money" thing. The conclusion is rather inevitable.

 

[Razz]

Where did you see those guidelines and do you still have a list of the spells that you researched?

I found it. It's stated under Advancement in the Duskblade entry. Not much, but it's useful.

Also, here is my personal Duskblade spell list. Again, I rushed through this so some of the spells listed shouldn't be there and some spells that should've been there probably isn't:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DUSKBLADE
*Spells in asterisks are spells from other sources unofficially added to the Duskblade's spell list. Spells noted as "3E Spells file" for its source is a personal file I created for myself as a reference to spells published in Dragon Magazine or the D&D Website that I have typed out in its own file, rather than pouring through Dragon Magazines to find the spell

0 LEVEL(Cantrips)
Acid Splash (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Disrupt Undead (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Electric Jolt* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Frost (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Sonic Snap* (Spell Compendium)
Touch of Fatigue (3.5 Player's Handbook)

1ST LEVEL
Accelerated Movement* (Spell Compendium)
Armor Lock* (Complete Scoundrel)
Benign Transposition* (Spell Compendium)
Bigby's Tripping Hand (Player's Handbook II)
Blade of Blood (Player's Handbook II)
Blades of Fire* (Spell Compendium)
Bloodletting* (Complete Mage)
Burning Hands (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Cause Fear (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Chill Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Color Spray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Corrosive Grasp* (Spell Compendium)
Darkvision, Lesser* (3E Spells file)
Deflect, Lesser (Player's Handbook II)
Ebon Eyes* (Spell Compendium)
Expeditious Retreat, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Fist of Stone* (Spell Compendium)
Ice Dagger* (Spell Compendium)
Jump (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Karmic Aura* (Complete Mage)
Kaupaer's Quickblast* (3E Spells file)
Kaupaer's Reflexive Strike* (3E Spells file)
Kelgore's Fire Bolt (Player's Handbook II)
Know Protections* (Magic of Faerun)
Low-Light Vision* (Spell Compendium)
Magic Weapon (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Master's Touch* (Spell Compendium)
Nerveskitter (Spell Compendium)
Obscuring Mist (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Clumsiness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Enfeeblement (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Flame* (Spell Compendium)
Resist Energy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Rouse (Player's Handbook II)
Shivering Touch, Lesser* (Frostburn)
Shocking Grasp (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Silvered Weapon* (3E Spells file)
Stand (Player's Handbook II)
Transference (3E Spells file)
True Casting* (Complete Mage)
True Strike (3.5 Player's Handbook)

2ND LEVEL
Adrenaline Surge* (Masters of the Wild)
Animalistic Power (Player's Handbook II)
Bear's Endurance (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Bigby's Striking Fist (Player's Handbook II)
Bladeweave* (Spell Compendium)
Bone Soften* (3E Spells file)
Bristle* (Spell Compendium)
Bull's Strength (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Burning Sword* (Spell Compendium)
Cat's Grace (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Darkvision (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Deflect (Player's Handbook II)
Dimension Hop (Player's Handbook II)
Enlarge Weapon* (Complete Scoundrel)
Escalating Enfeeblement* (Complete Mage)
Fatal Flame* (Complete Scoundrel)
Fly, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Frost Weapon* (Frostburn)
Ghost Touch Armor* (Spell Compendium)
Ghoul Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Invisibility, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Karmic Backlash* (Complete Mage)
Melf's Acid Arrow (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Mirror Move* (3E Spells file)
Mountain Stance* (Spell Compendium)
Muritho's Randomscatter* (3E Spells file)
Opportunistic Dodge* (Complete Scoundrel)
Ray of Depletion* (3E Spells file)
Ray of Ice* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Sickness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Stupidity* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Weakness* (Spell Compendium)
Sap Strength* (Book of Vile Darkness)
Scorch* (Spell Compendium)
Scorching Ray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
See Invisibility (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Seeking Ray (Player's Handbook II)
Sonic Weapon* (Spell Compendium)
Speak to Allies* (Spell Compendium)
Spider Climb (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Stretch Weapon (Player's Handbook II)
Summon Weapon* (Complete Mage)
Sure Strike (Player's Handbook II)
Touch of Idiocy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Unfettered Grasp* (Races of the Dragon)
Whirling Blade* (Spell Compendium)
Wracking Touch* (Spell Compendium)

3RD LEVEL
Crown of Might (Player's Handbook II)
Crown of Protection (Player's Handbook II)
Deeper Darkvision* (Spell Compendium)
Dispelling Touch (Player's Handbook II)
Disrupt Undead, Greater* (Spell Compendium)
Dolorous Blow* (Spell Compendium)
Doom Scarabs (Players's Handbook II)
Energy Aegis (Player's Handbook II)
Energy Surge (Player's Handbook II)
Ferocity of Sanguine Rage* (Dragon Magic)
Halt (Player's Handbook II)
Keen Edge (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Magic Weapon, Greater (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Phantasmal Strangler* (Complete Mage)
Protection from Energy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Dizziness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Exhaustion (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Regroup (Player's Handbook II)
Repelling Shield* (Complete Mage)
Rusted Blade* (Complete Mage)
Shivering Touch* (Frostburn)
Sonic Blast (Lance of Disruption)* (3E Spells file)
Tenacious Dispelling* (Complete Mage)
Toxic Tongue* (Complete Mage)
Vampiric Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Wreath of Flames* (Dragon Magic)

4TH LEVEL
Bigby's Interposing Hand (Player's Handbook II)
Bladebane* (Unapproachable East)
Channeled Pyroburst (Player's Handbook II)
Dimension Door (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Dispel Magic (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Enervate (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Fire Shield (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Firestride Exhalation* (Dragon Magic)
Incendiary Surge* (Complete Mage)
Karmic Retribution* (Complete Mage)
Lower Spell Resistance* (Draconomicon)
Phantasmal Killer (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray Deflection* (Spell Compendium)
Shout (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Spell Enhancer* (Spell Compendium)
Touch of Years* (Complete Mage)
Toxic Weapon (Player's Handbook II)
Unseen Strike* (Complete Mage)
Wingbind* (Spell Compendium)

5TH LEVEL
Bigby's Clenched Fist (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Chain Lightning (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Channeled Sonic Blast* (Complete Mage)
Coat of Arms* (Complete Mage)
Dimension Jumper* (Complete Mage)
Disintegrate (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Earth Reaver* (Spell Compendium)
Fire and Brimstone* (Complete Mage)
Hold Monster (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Indomitability* (Spell Compendium)
Lightning Leap* (Complete Mage)
Polar Ray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Prismatic Aura* (Complete Mage)
Prismatic Ray* (Spell Compendium)
Shimmermantle* (3E Spells file)
Slashing Dispel (Player's Handbook II)
Sonic Shield (Player's Handbook II)
Spell Theft* (Complete Scoundrel)
Storm Touch* (Magic of Eberron)
Touch of Vecna* (Complete Mage)
Waves of Fatigue (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Wrack* (Spell Compendium)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahh, a MUCH better list for players to choose from.

Don't ya think...?

 

[DM-Rocco]

But this is what happens when D&D professional creators are lax on their work and a full-time working, part-time college student who's married has to do the work that should've been done by them. :\

Psst.

I'm with you there. But don't sing that too loudy, it strike a nerve with some if you expect them to do the job they are being paid for.

Oops, did I say that out loud?

 

[DM-Rocco]

I found it. It's stated under Advancement in the Duskblade entry. Not much, but it's useful.

Also, here is my personal Duskblade spell list. Again, I rushed through this so some of the spells listed shouldn't be there and some spells that should've been there probably isn't:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DUSKBLADE
*Spells in asterisks are spells from other sources unofficially added to the Duskblade's spell list. Spells noted as "3E Spells file" for its source is a personal file I created for myself as a reference to spells published in Dragon Magazine or the D&D Website that I have typed out in its own file, rather than pouring through Dragon Magazines to find the spell

0 LEVEL(Cantrips)
Acid Splash (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Disrupt Undead (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Electric Jolt* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Frost (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Sonic Snap* (Spell Compendium)
Touch of Fatigue (3.5 Player's Handbook)

1ST LEVEL
Accelerated Movement* (Spell Compendium)
Armor Lock* (Complete Scoundrel)
Benign Transposition* (Spell Compendium)
Bigby's Tripping Hand (Player's Handbook II)
Blade of Blood (Player's Handbook II)
Blades of Fire* (Spell Compendium)
Bloodletting* (Complete Mage)
Burning Hands (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Cause Fear (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Chill Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Color Spray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Corrosive Grasp* (Spell Compendium)
Darkvision, Lesser* (3E Spells file)
Deflect, Lesser (Player's Handbook II)
Ebon Eyes* (Spell Compendium)
Expeditious Retreat, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Fist of Stone* (Spell Compendium)
Ice Dagger* (Spell Compendium)
Jump (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Karmic Aura* (Complete Mage)
Kaupaer's Quickblast* (3E Spells file)
Kaupaer's Reflexive Strike* (3E Spells file)
Kelgore's Fire Bolt (Player's Handbook II)
Know Protections* (Magic of Faerun)
Low-Light Vision* (Spell Compendium)
Magic Weapon (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Master's Touch* (Spell Compendium)
Nerveskitter (Spell Compendium)
Obscuring Mist (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Clumsiness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Enfeeblement (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Flame* (Spell Compendium)
Resist Energy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Rouse (Player's Handbook II)
Shivering Touch, Lesser* (Frostburn)
Shocking Grasp (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Silvered Weapon* (3E Spells file)
Stand (Player's Handbook II)
Transference (3E Spells file)
True Casting* (Complete Mage)
True Strike (3.5 Player's Handbook)

2ND LEVEL
Adrenaline Surge* (Masters of the Wild)
Animalistic Power (Player's Handbook II)
Bear's Endurance (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Bigby's Striking Fist (Player's Handbook II)
Bladeweave* (Spell Compendium)
Bone Soften* (3E Spells file)
Bristle* (Spell Compendium)
Bull's Strength (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Burning Sword* (Spell Compendium)
Cat's Grace (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Darkvision (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Deflect (Player's Handbook II)
Dimension Hop (Player's Handbook II)
Enlarge Weapon* (Complete Scoundrel)
Escalating Enfeeblement* (Complete Mage)
Fatal Flame* (Complete Scoundrel)
Fly, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Frost Weapon* (Frostburn)
Ghost Touch Armor* (Spell Compendium)
Ghoul Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Invisibility, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Karmic Backlash* (Complete Mage)
Melf's Acid Arrow (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Mirror Move* (3E Spells file)
Mountain Stance* (Spell Compendium)
Muritho's Randomscatter* (3E Spells file)
Opportunistic Dodge* (Complete Scoundrel)
Ray of Depletion* (3E Spells file)
Ray of Ice* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Sickness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Stupidity* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Weakness* (Spell Compendium)
Sap Strength* (Book of Vile Darkness)
Scorch* (Spell Compendium)
Scorching Ray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
See Invisibility (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Seeking Ray (Player's Handbook II)
Sonic Weapon* (Spell Compendium)
Speak to Allies* (Spell Compendium)
Spider Climb (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Stretch Weapon (Player's Handbook II)
Summon Weapon* (Complete Mage)
Sure Strike (Player's Handbook II)
Touch of Idiocy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Unfettered Grasp* (Races of the Dragon)
Whirling Blade* (Spell Compendium)
Wracking Touch* (Spell Compendium)

3RD LEVEL
Crown of Might (Player's Handbook II)
Crown of Protection (Player's Handbook II)
Deeper Darkvision* (Spell Compendium)
Dispelling Touch (Player's Handbook II)
Disrupt Undead, Greater* (Spell Compendium)
Dolorous Blow* (Spell Compendium)
Doom Scarabs (Players's Handbook II)
Energy Aegis (Player's Handbook II)
Energy Surge (Player's Handbook II)
Ferocity of Sanguine Rage* (Dragon Magic)
Halt (Player's Handbook II)
Keen Edge (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Magic Weapon, Greater (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Phantasmal Strangler* (Complete Mage)
Protection from Energy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Dizziness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Exhaustion (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Regroup (Player's Handbook II)
Repelling Shield* (Complete Mage)
Rusted Blade* (Complete Mage)
Shivering Touch* (Frostburn)
Sonic Blast (Lance of Disruption)* (3E Spells file)
Tenacious Dispelling* (Complete Mage)
Toxic Tongue* (Complete Mage)
Vampiric Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Wreath of Flames* (Dragon Magic)

4TH LEVEL
Bigby's Interposing Hand (Player's Handbook II)
Bladebane* (Unapproachable East)
Channeled Pyroburst (Player's Handbook II)
Dimension Door (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Dispel Magic (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Enervate (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Fire Shield (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Firestride Exhalation* (Dragon Magic)
Incendiary Surge* (Complete Mage)
Karmic Retribution* (Complete Mage)
Lower Spell Resistance* (Draconomicon)
Phantasmal Killer (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray Deflection* (Spell Compendium)
Shout (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Spell Enhancer* (Spell Compendium)
Touch of Years* (Complete Mage)
Toxic Weapon (Player's Handbook II)
Unseen Strike* (Complete Mage)
Wingbind* (Spell Compendium)

5TH LEVEL
Bigby's Clenched Fist (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Chain Lightning (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Channeled Sonic Blast* (Complete Mage)
Coat of Arms* (Complete Mage)
Dimension Jumper* (Complete Mage)
Disintegrate (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Earth Reaver* (Spell Compendium)
Fire and Brimstone* (Complete Mage)
Hold Monster (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Indomitability* (Spell Compendium)
Lightning Leap* (Complete Mage)
Polar Ray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Prismatic Aura* (Complete Mage)
Prismatic Ray* (Spell Compendium)
Shimmermantle* (3E Spells file)
Slashing Dispel (Player's Handbook II)
Sonic Shield (Player's Handbook II)
Spell Theft* (Complete Scoundrel)
Storm Touch* (Magic of Eberron)
Touch of Vecna* (Complete Mage)
Waves of Fatigue (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Wrack* (Spell Compendium)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahh, a MUCH better list for players to choose from.

Don't ya think...?

Well, I'm off to bed soon, so I can't look them all over, but it certainly opens new doors. Also, I don't think it is overpowering from an initial review mainly because there is no way you could ever learn all of them. At level 20 you would still only have 21 1st through 5th level spells. Just a bit more flavor and options.

Good work, I like

 

[Razz]

Well, I'm off to bed soon, so I can't look them all over, but it certainly opens new doors. Also, I don't think it is overpowering from an initial review mainly because there is no way you could ever learn all of them. At level 20 you would still only have 21 1st through 5th level spells. Just a bit more flavor and options.

Good work, I like

That is exactly my line of reasoning with it.

It makes total sense that adding new spells to the Beguiler/Dread Necromancer/Warmage spell list will grossly overpower them (and make Advanced Learning obsolete as a class feature) because of the mechanics used for their spellcasting. But it would not do the Duskblade any harm. It simply enhances a larger variety of Duskblades and options for them

 

[Aus_Snow]

The conclusion is rather inevitable.

I agree.

Well, with those words, anyway.