What do you think of the Duskblade?

[Janaxstrus]

Playing a Duskblade now. My only beefs are that the class needs one of the following:

Slightly faster spell progression
OR
Slightly more variety in spells.

I'd be happy with the slow learning curve if there was a little more choice for some utility spells. I don't want Wraithstrike, fireball, invisibility or any of that, but I wouldn't mind having Knock or Shield or Flight (not just swift fly).

It's an ok class, but if I had to do it over, I'd go more of the Gish route for more spells, even if it's less per day.

 

[wildstarsreach]

First of all, Haste is in the PHB and wasn't added to the Duskblade so it'll stay that way and should.

Second, why is it fair for Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerors/Wizards to constantly have more and more spells and, technically, making them more and more powerful by the book but the Duskblade has to remain static and never-upgrading? That's not fair nor is it balanced. What do you tell the Duskblade player when he goes "Hey! That Sorceror casted Ray of Clumsiness, I can cast Ray of Enfeeblement. They're close enough, why can't that be on my spell list too? It's clearly a Duskblade spell!"

I have been working on some feats that would add additional spells to the duskblade spell list. It would be theme based on an attack strategy, melee, ranged or buffing. And no, wraithstrike as it is wouldn't be in the list.

 

[DM-Rocco]

I have been working on some feats that would add additional spells to the duskblade spell list. It would be theme based on an attack strategy, melee, ranged or buffing. And no, wraithstrike as it is wouldn't be in the list.

Well, I would be interested in seeing them, but I see a fundamental flaw with this already. Duskblades were not designed to be ranged warriors. Or, that is to say that the empowering ability to funnel a touch spell through a melee weapon does not work on ranged weapons and that makes that class limited in design and excludes most ranged options.

I think you might be better off with level substitutions for the class that put the Duskblade down one path or another. This could then include ranged weapons but exclude melee weapons, as an example.

 

[Eytan Bernstein]

Well, I stand corrected. Although, I was guessing from memory, and I didn't look at the 0th level spells just cause they are usually like 1 point of damage or a minor effect, so for me, that is 6.

Anyway, I guess I would like to see some 4th and 5th level touch spells and maybe one or two more lower level spells. I guess my point is that for a class feature that is so much apart of the class you are limited in its use because of spell selections.

Don't get me wrong, those are good spells, it would just be nice to see a bit more of a selection.

Maybe it is enough, when I start playing I'm sure I'll change my tune.

Dimension hop is also a touch spell that can affect enemies by teleporting them away from you. It's a 2nd level spell on their list.

 

[wildstarsreach]

I found it. It's stated under Advancement in the Duskblade entry. Not much, but it's useful.

Also, here is my personal Duskblade spell list. Again, I rushed through this so some of the spells listed shouldn't be there and some spells that should've been there probably isn't:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DUSKBLADE
*Spells in asterisks are spells from other sources unofficially added to the Duskblade's spell list. Spells noted as "3E Spells file" for its source is a personal file I created for myself as a reference to spells published in Dragon Magazine or the D&D Website that I have typed out in its own file, rather than pouring through Dragon Magazines to find the spell

0 LEVEL(Cantrips)
Acid Splash (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Disrupt Undead (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Electric Jolt* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Frost (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Sonic Snap* (Spell Compendium)
Touch of Fatigue (3.5 Player's Handbook)

1ST LEVEL
Accelerated Movement* (Spell Compendium)
Armor Lock* (Complete Scoundrel)
Benign Transposition* (Spell Compendium)
Bigby's Tripping Hand (Player's Handbook II)
Blade of Blood (Player's Handbook II)
Blades of Fire* (Spell Compendium)
Bloodletting* (Complete Mage)
Burning Hands (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Cause Fear (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Chill Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Color Spray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Corrosive Grasp* (Spell Compendium)
Darkvision, Lesser* (3E Spells file)
Deflect, Lesser (Player's Handbook II)
Ebon Eyes* (Spell Compendium)
Expeditious Retreat, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Fist of Stone* (Spell Compendium)
Ice Dagger* (Spell Compendium)
Jump (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Karmic Aura* (Complete Mage)
Kaupaer's Quickblast* (3E Spells file)
Kaupaer's Reflexive Strike* (3E Spells file)
Kelgore's Fire Bolt (Player's Handbook II)
Know Protections* (Magic of Faerun)
Low-Light Vision* (Spell Compendium)
Magic Weapon (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Master's Touch* (Spell Compendium)
Nerveskitter (Spell Compendium)
Obscuring Mist (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Clumsiness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Enfeeblement (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Flame* (Spell Compendium)
Resist Energy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Rouse (Player's Handbook II)
Shivering Touch, Lesser* (Frostburn)
Shocking Grasp (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Silvered Weapon* (3E Spells file)
Stand (Player's Handbook II)
Transference (3E Spells file)
True Casting* (Complete Mage)
True Strike (3.5 Player's Handbook)

2ND LEVEL
Adrenaline Surge* (Masters of the Wild)
Animalistic Power (Player's Handbook II)
Bear's Endurance (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Bigby's Striking Fist (Player's Handbook II)
Bladeweave* (Spell Compendium)
Bone Soften* (3E Spells file)
Bristle* (Spell Compendium)
Bull's Strength (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Burning Sword* (Spell Compendium)
Cat's Grace (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Darkvision (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Deflect (Player's Handbook II)
Dimension Hop (Player's Handbook II)
Enlarge Weapon* (Complete Scoundrel)
Escalating Enfeeblement* (Complete Mage)
Fatal Flame* (Complete Scoundrel)
Fly, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Frost Weapon* (Frostburn)
Ghost Touch Armor* (Spell Compendium)
Ghoul Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Invisibility, Swift (Spell Compendium)
Karmic Backlash* (Complete Mage)
Melf's Acid Arrow (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Mirror Move* (3E Spells file)
Mountain Stance* (Spell Compendium)
Muritho's Randomscatter* (3E Spells file)
Opportunistic Dodge* (Complete Scoundrel)
Ray of Depletion* (3E Spells file)
Ray of Ice* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Sickness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Stupidity* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Weakness* (Spell Compendium)
Sap Strength* (Book of Vile Darkness)
Scorch* (Spell Compendium)
Scorching Ray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
See Invisibility (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Seeking Ray (Player's Handbook II)
Sonic Weapon* (Spell Compendium)
Speak to Allies* (Spell Compendium)
Spider Climb (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Stretch Weapon (Player's Handbook II)
Summon Weapon* (Complete Mage)
Sure Strike (Player's Handbook II)
Touch of Idiocy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Unfettered Grasp* (Races of the Dragon)
Whirling Blade* (Spell Compendium)
Wracking Touch* (Spell Compendium)

3RD LEVEL
Crown of Might (Player's Handbook II)
Crown of Protection (Player's Handbook II)
Deeper Darkvision* (Spell Compendium)
Dispelling Touch (Player's Handbook II)
Disrupt Undead, Greater* (Spell Compendium)
Dolorous Blow* (Spell Compendium)
Doom Scarabs (Players's Handbook II)
Energy Aegis (Player's Handbook II)
Energy Surge (Player's Handbook II)
Ferocity of Sanguine Rage* (Dragon Magic)
Halt (Player's Handbook II)
Keen Edge (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Magic Weapon, Greater (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Phantasmal Strangler* (Complete Mage)
Protection from Energy (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray of Dizziness* (Spell Compendium)
Ray of Exhaustion (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Regroup (Player's Handbook II)
Repelling Shield* (Complete Mage)
Rusted Blade* (Complete Mage)
Shivering Touch* (Frostburn)
Sonic Blast (Lance of Disruption)* (3E Spells file)
Tenacious Dispelling* (Complete Mage)
Toxic Tongue* (Complete Mage)
Vampiric Touch (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Wreath of Flames* (Dragon Magic)

4TH LEVEL
Bigby's Interposing Hand (Player's Handbook II)
Bladebane* (Unapproachable East)
Channeled Pyroburst (Player's Handbook II)
Dimension Door (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Dispel Magic (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Enervate (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Fire Shield (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Firestride Exhalation* (Dragon Magic)
Incendiary Surge* (Complete Mage)
Karmic Retribution* (Complete Mage)
Lower Spell Resistance* (Draconomicon)
Phantasmal Killer (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Ray Deflection* (Spell Compendium)
Shout (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Spell Enhancer* (Spell Compendium)
Touch of Years* (Complete Mage)
Toxic Weapon (Player's Handbook II)
Unseen Strike* (Complete Mage)
Wingbind* (Spell Compendium)

5TH LEVEL
Bigby's Clenched Fist (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Chain Lightning (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Channeled Sonic Blast* (Complete Mage)
Coat of Arms* (Complete Mage)
Dimension Jumper* (Complete Mage)
Disintegrate (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Earth Reaver* (Spell Compendium)
Fire and Brimstone* (Complete Mage)
Hold Monster (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Indomitability* (Spell Compendium)
Lightning Leap* (Complete Mage)
Polar Ray (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Prismatic Aura* (Complete Mage)
Prismatic Ray* (Spell Compendium)
Shimmermantle* (3E Spells file)
Slashing Dispel (Player's Handbook II)
Sonic Shield (Player's Handbook II)
Spell Theft* (Complete Scoundrel)
Storm Touch* (Magic of Eberron)
Touch of Vecna* (Complete Mage)
Waves of Fatigue (3.5 Player's Handbook)
Wrack* (Spell Compendium)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahh, a MUCH better list for players to choose from.

Don't ya think...?

I understand what you are trying to do and would love it as a duskblade player but the class is overall better than a fighter with their spells. They need to give up something in order balance what is a fairly balanced class on the upper end of the power scale. Below is some feats that I have been waiting to submit to give the class additional spells.

Expanded Duskblade Spell Knowledge Defender
You have an additional few spells added to the list in which to learn.
Prerequisite: Duskblade level 9 for 1st feat, Shield Specialization. Duskblade level 12 for 2nd feat.
Benefit: You gain 2 additional spells per spell level to your spell list. You are specializing in defensive and protective spells. When you gain new levels, you may choose these spells as well as spells from the standard Duskblade list.
1st Feat............................ 2nd Feat
1st: Mage Armor...................... Shield
2nd: Blur.................................. Mirror Image
3rd: Stoneskin......................... Displacement
4th: Ray of Deflection............... Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere
5th: Greater Stoneskin............. Repulsion
Normal: You would be limited to the standard Duskblade spell list. This is an expansion list to the spells that the Duskblade who took the feat can learn and cast.
Special: You cannot learn more than one of the three Expanded Duskblade Spell Knowledge Feats. You have chosen to specialize in special Duskblade knowledge.

Expanded Duskblade Spell Knowledge Slayer
You have an additional few spells added to the list in which to learn.
Prerequisite: Duskblade level 9 for 1st feat, Power Attack. Duskblade level 12 for 2nd feat.
Benefit: You gain 2 additional spells per spell level to your spell list. You are specializing in attack and buff spells. When you gain new levels, you may choose these spells as well as spells from the standard Duskblade list.
1st Feat............................ 2nd Feat
1st: Enlarge Person.................. Ectoplasmic Armor
2nd: Belker Claws..................... Blast of Force
3rd: Swift Enlarge Person**...... Haste
4th: Mass Enlarge Person.......... Duskblade Wraithstrike (Next Attack only)
5th: Greater Enlarge Person...... Know Vulnerabilities
Normal: You would be limited to the standard Duskblade spell list. This is an expansion list to the spells that the Duskblade who took the feat can learn and cast.
Special: You cannot learn more than one of the three Expanded Duskblade Spell Knowledge Feats. You have chosen to specialize in special Duskblade knowledge.
**This would be a swift action enlarge that would last for one round.

Expanded Duskblade Spell Knowledge Spellsword
You have an additional few spells added to the list in which to learn.
Prerequisite: Duskblade level 9 for 1st feat, Spell Focus Evocation. Duskblade level 12 for 2nd feat.
Benefit: You gain 2 additional spells per spell level to your spell list. You are specializing in damaging spells. When you gain new levels, you may choose these spells as well as spells from the standard Duskblade list.
1st Feat............................ 2nd Feat
1st: Persistent Blade................ Magic Missile
2nd: Burning Sword.................. Ray of Stupidity
3rd: Sound Lance..................... Chain Missile
4th: Energy Spheres................ Force Missiles
5th: Prismatic Ray................... Ball of Lightning
Normal: You would be limited to the standard Duskblade spell list. This is an expansion list to the spells that the Duskblade who took the feat can learn and cast.
Special: You cannot learn more than one of the three Expanded Duskblade Spell Knowledge Feats. You have chosen to specialize in special Duskblade knowledge.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Well, I would be interested in seeing them, but I see a fundamental flaw with this already. Duskblades were not designed to be ranged warriors. Or, that is to say that the empowering ability to funnel a touch spell through a melee weapon does not work on ranged weapons and that makes that class limited in design and excludes most ranged options.

I think you might be better off with level substitutions for the class that put the Duskblade down one path or another. This could then include ranged weapons but exclude melee weapons, as an example.

They have several spells that are ranged. The duskblade is flexibility with using only a few spells that are consistantly channeled through the sword. Their higher level spells are for defense or ranged attack.

Touch of fatigue
Blade of Blood
Chill Touch
Shocking Grasp
Ghoul Touch
Touch of Idiocy
Vampiric Touch

Typically the higher level spells will be used for lower level one that can be channeled. I pulled a trick tonight using a quick casted scorching ray followed up by a standard cast scorching ray. I was able to do 16d6 with 4 rays which is all ranged attacks. Channeling is just one of many tools that this class has.

 

[Felon]

Well, I would be interested in seeing them, but I see a fundamental flaw with this already. Duskblades were not designed to be ranged warriors. Or, that is to say that the empowering ability to funnel a touch spell through a melee weapon does not work on ranged weapons and that makes that class limited in design and excludes most ranged options.

You jumped to that conclusion rather hastily. They have one class feature that's melee-oriented. That doesn't conscript their entire design to melee. Whenever you see a duskblade pop a scorching ray and then swift-cast another one (another handy class feature they happen to have), I hope you'll realize that.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I really like the look of the Duskblade but unfortunately I haven't seen one in action yet. If my Fighter/Cleric bites it in Shackled City I am bringing in a Duskblade.

 

[DreadArchon]

You jumped to that conclusion rather hastily. They have one class feature that's melee-oriented.

And they can use it with other classes, too, which is unusual for base caster classes. (Still, they're clearly not melee-only, Ranged Touch attacks with a Full BAB is nice enough not to require much in the way of special features.)

 

[rgard]

First of all, Haste is in the PHB and wasn't added to the Duskblade so it'll stay that way and should.

Second, why is it fair for Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerors/Wizards to constantly have more and more spells and, technically, making them more and more powerful by the book but the Duskblade has to remain static and never-upgrading? That's not fair nor is it balanced. What do you tell the Duskblade player when he goes "Hey! That Sorceror casted Ray of Clumsiness, I can cast Ray of Enfeeblement. They're close enough, why can't that be on my spell list too? It's clearly a Duskblade spell!"

For comparison to Sorcerers/Wizards, the Duskblade's spell list is offset by the greater HP, best BAB, greater number of the lower level spells per day and ability to wear armor and cast spells.

It's not as clear when it comes to Clerics and Druids, but the Duskblade does still get the better BAB and greater number of lower level spells per day.

Really, if you don't like the Duskblade spell list, try playing a Battle Sorcerer from UA. You can pick the exact spells you want, get the medium BAB, d8 for hp and cast in light armor.

Thanks,
Rich