What do you think of the Duskblade?

Mort said:
again - how do you get around:

Per the SRD: Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

Vampiric touch is not a healing spell, it grants temporary HP's for 1 hour. So 2 (or more) on the same target = overlap, they do not stack.
It doesn't matter what the SRD says. Well, to a point.

What I mean is, if the item or rule in question (in this case the spell vampiric touch) states differently than the SRD, you use the most current version of the rules with the item in question over riding the rules. In this case it is simple, the spell sets it owns limits. It states that you can't gain more HP than the creature has plus 10. That statement over rides anything in the SRD.

I side note, since the spell is initially meant for use on one person, you could argue that your SRD rules come into effect. I however, in addition to 25 years of DMing, also happen to be a level 2 judge in Magic the Gathering for over 10 years. I know how WOTC R&D designers think in terms of effects stacking and not stacking. Without any additional information in the form of rules or relevant examples, I would say that it effects each individual creature struck with you gaining an equal amount of HP as long as you don't go over the total HP plus 10 of each creature, with each temporary HP stacking with the other.

Part of the reason for this is that, even though it is from the same type of spell, it is not from a different source. It is from the same spell. It is the same effect gathering all at once, not an individual instance of the spells taking effect several times.
 

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Mort said:
I think you still run afoul of this:

Per the SRD: Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

Vampiric touch provides temp. HP's that last for one hour (unlike a cure spell that provides real HP's that do not go away unless taken away) so no Vampiric touch doesn't stack with itself.

Oh darn, you beat me to the punch. I was going to post that...Curse the closing internet contention being 19 miles away from me...

For a extra point, do you know which Dragon Magazine tackled this question?

---Rusty
 

DungeonMaester said:
Oh darn, you beat me to the punch. I was going to post that...Curse the closing internet contention being 19 miles away from me...

For a extra point, do you know which Dragon Magazine tackled this question?

---Rusty
Well, the SAGE has made bad calls before, most he admits in a follow up magazine. However, if he does tackle this question, or any other source, it is most likely not in the same contents.

I could maybe see how casting the spell round after round might not work, but casting it through the blade as part of a full round attack option should at the least.

Now I am curious. Let me look something up once.
 

DM-Rocco said:
Well, the SAGE has made bad calls before, most he admits in a follow up magazine. However, if he does tackle this question, or any other source, it is most likely not in the same contents.

I could maybe see how casting the spell round after round might not work, but casting it through the blade as part of a full round attack option should at the least.

Now I am curious. Let me look something up once.

Hint: the question to the Sage was if Temp hp stacked.

---Rusty
 

Okay, with a bit of research I have have a slightly different answer. I still hold I was correct about the above because I stated that with the information given.

Anyway, with temp HP it is first in first out when it comes to HP gained through the same effect. So, if you cast Vampiric touch one round and then again in another, you use which ever gave you more HP. However, when you cast it as part of the Duskblade class feature to have it effect each creature in the attack, it is counted as one instance of the spell being cast, so all HP damage resulting from that one round of attacks is converted to temp HP.

Doing that again in the next round would only gain extra HP if the Vampiric touch damage was greater than the temp HP remaining from the first round, which would also reset the duration of the temp HP.

Note, you can still gain extra temp HP from other spells and they would stack.

Yeah, WOTC is a mess :D :p :lol:

The following is from the FAQ

Do temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect stack? What about from different effects? If I have temporary hit points from multiple sources, how should I apply damage?


Temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect don’t stack; instead, the highest number of temporary hit points applies in place of all others. Temporary hit points from different sources stack, but you must keep track of them separately.

For example, imagine a character who gained 15 temporary hit points from an aid spell. After taking 8 points of damage, she has 7 temporary hit points left from the spell. If another aid spell were cast on the same character granting 12 temporary hit points, this total would replace the other spell’s total, meaning the character would now have 12 temporary hit points (rather than 19). If the character then cast false life on herself, she would add the full benefit of that spell to the temporary hit points from the aid spell.

This also applies to temporary hit points gained from energy drain and similar special abilities. Each successful attack counts as one application of the effect (meaning that an attack that bestows 2 or more negative levels still counts as only one application of the effect). For example, a wight gains 5 temporary hit points each time it bestows a negative level with its slam attack. If it bestows another negative level while it has 2 temporary hit points remaining from the first attack, the new temporary hit points would replace the old ones. Temporary hit points are “first-in, first-out.” Damage should be taken off the oldest temporary-hit-point-granting effect first; when that effect is exhausted, apply damage to the next oldest effect. For this reason, you must track each supply of temporary hit points separately.
 
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That is a mess and hard to read. I remember the answer being that if you where two get temp hp then you always take the highest. So if where to gain 3 temp one round, and 6 the next round, then you have a next gain of 3 extra hp.

Now i'm going to do a little research...

---Rusty
 

I think it's a really nice addition to the game. I just wish they wouldn't have made the error on referring people to the wrong page for their spell list (it refers to the page of NEW spells for them, not their actual full spell list which is listed at the end of the actual character write-up in the book). That minor error has caused so much confusion.
 

DM-Rocco said:
For no reason other than the fact that the title of the class infers you will be in close quarter battle. Yes, I know it more refers to the types of spells you cast versus you wielding a sword. However, when I first read the class, it was what I thought the Duskblade might have been. That is to say, a wizard who fights with steel and can blast with spells.

It would only stand to reason that if you could cast spells while in armor that you may also have a bit better BAB. Maybe the cleric progression if not the full BAB.

After all, the first line in the text describing them is thus:
Some spell casters care for only one thing: war.

War or battles as part of a war, don't just get resolved in 4 rounds. It is quite possable that a war mage, even one of high level, would run out of spells long before the battle is over. I would think it more than reasonable that they would have at least a clerics BAB and some martial profiencies as back up. Specially with the limited spell casting list.

But that is just me.

I guess "Useless for anything but Blasting Mage" was already taken in a 3rd party book.
 

DungeonMaester said:
That is a mess and hard to read. I remember the answer being that if you where two get temp hp then you always take the highest. So if where to gain 3 temp one round, and 6 the next round, then you have a next gain of 3 extra hp.

Now i'm going to do a little research...

---Rusty
Okay, I just copied it from the FAQ and didn't re-format it to fit properly here. So now I just re-did it, hope that is easier to read. :) ;) :cool:
 
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DM-Rocco said:
Okay, I just copied it from the FAQ and didn't re-format it to fit properly here. So now I just re-did it, hope that is easier to read. :) ;) :cool:

Alright, I can read it now, and it looks like it is saying the same thing I was.

I do not agree with it totaly, but it won't come up enough in play to
house rule.

This gives a Idea for character that nagates damage by a endless loop of Temp Hp.

---Rusty
 

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