What do you want? (Forked Thread: When did I stop being WotC's target audience?)

[justanobody]

Forked from: When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

Call me a believer in the Free Market System. As long as WOTC gives people what they want, then they'll get customers. If no one was buying this stuff, would WOTC keep making it?

My opinion on the subject matters little since I tend not to buy a lot. I only get stuff I will use. It also helps that I game with people who tend to buy a lot of the splats.

Also, I can fork threads too!

Is WotC giving people what they want, or do people only take what they can get?

Does today's gamer really know what they want? Are they really all that concerned with the ingredients so long as it is chocolate cake in the end?

What have you wanted from D&D, that has never seemed to happen yet, or you have had to add to the game to not be missing that part of the fun for you?

Now I am not trying to get too deeply into the aspect of brand buying vs not buying a brand for its name. Just if you think the products given are what people really want, yourself specifically; or are they consumed because that is all that is available?

So as bolded above....

 

[MerricB]

I think that, mostly, 4e is what I want. The primary aspect of 3e that I came to really detest - the overly steep power curve - seems to be gone, and the players have options they can use.

The biggest problem with 4e for me is the length of combat, but that may improve.

Cheers!

 

[Angel Tarragon]

What do I want? Thats fairly simple; support for 3E. Of course thats never gonna happen unless a gamer with a passion for 3E wins the biggest lottery of all time and buys 50% of Hasbro's shares.

 

[Glyfair]

Is WotC giving people what they want, or do people only take what they can get?

There is a lot out there that you can "get" to only take what WotC gives us. There are at least 5 previous editions of D&D that can be gotten pretty easily (and that's using the most conservative way of counting editions).

True, there are a lot of factors to the choice. However, I think very few players will find any game system to be "perfect" with no flaws. It's almost always a matter of which game gives you the situation that is best for you.

High on the list is availability of players (if all the players I know only want to play Spawn of Fashan, it matters little what other game I prefer). Right now I personally see little difficulty in finding a 4E or 3E game. I doubt I would have trouble finding or starting an earlier edition game, if I so chose. Has 4E taken over enough that it's a factor?

What have you wanted from D&D, that has never seemed to happen yet, or you have had to add to the game to not be missing that part of the fun for you?

Honestly, there is nothing I wanted from D&D that has never happened yet. There might be a particular combination I'd prefer that hasn't quite gelled, but just about everything I think would be appropriate for D&D has appeared in it somewhere.

Now there are things I like in RPGs that D&D has never had. However, I don't feel they are appropriate for D&D. I go to other RPGs for those things, because I don't feel D&D is a fit for them.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Start with 3.5. Have a section in the beginning that has basic rules. In other words, ability checks instead of skills, no feats, limited abilities upon advancement. This would provide for a nice old school feel and speed of play, if that's what people want. Then, after that section, a cleaned up and renovated version of 3.5 for those who want that complexity. All options that were core in 3.5 remain core, just as most monsters have rules for using them as a PC race. Use the 1/2 level + ability modifier mechanic from 4E since it helps flatten the power curve out and keeps the game playable at upper levels. Don't skimp on the amount of material. The core books should be crammed beyond the breaking point with material and should include all options available in the core rules of the previous edition.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I swear that thread must have spawned the most forked threads then any other threads

-For myself, I have always wanted to see D&D dive more into various forms of magic. While yes there is variants of Arcane and Divine brought up, it is still for the most part Arcane or Divine.

I would like to see more stuff like; spirit-magic, blood-magic, sigil-magic, etc. This is somewhat sated by the new Power Sources coming out, but would like to see more.

-While technology has been shown a bit in the past, I would like to see a truly magic mixed with technology setting. Eberron touches on this somewhat, but I would like to see a setting like Arcanum in D&D.

As for core mechanics. Hmm... Skill Challenges has settled a lot of that which I would like to see, umm... Probably mechanically I would like to see more hmm... I guess in a way more solid rules for flaws. While they can be houseruled easily, it be interesting to see them really delve into flaws.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Forked from: When did I stop being WotC's target audience?
What have you wanted from D&D, that has never seemed to happen yet, or you have had to add to the game to not be missing that part of the fun for you?

In the end, I think all fans want from D&D is something that can in most ways represent the game that they want to play. As long as the rules don't get in the way of that, people seem to be happy (or not happy if they do).

As for myself, the following is my personal opinion of what I would like to see in D&D. It is the charter I described for the group I started (see sig. for further details). Put this altogether and it is the ideal D&D for me:

• Magic is mysterious and dark once more; rather than the safe hum-drum technology of the fantasy world.
• The days of characters being defined by their suite of magical items instead of their skills and heroics are gone.
• Rules and flavour should be in symbiosis with one another, rather than in competition or strained accord.
• Streamline for elegance, not to bash complexity into vague simplicity.
• Adventuring is inherently not safe; combat encounters should present danger to the characters – the safety net must go.
• The assumption of miniatures and a battlemap should not be implicit in the ruleset; the rules must also be able to reasonably support those groups who prefer the landscape of the mind.
• While no specific world is given or assumed, the rules should allow for one that sits between Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings, Vance’s Lyonesse series, Howard’s Conan Stories, Martin’s Game of Thrones series, Williams’ Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, Erikson’s Malazan series and Fritz Leiber’s Stories of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser; and be able to stretch to any of these fabulous fantasy pillars.
• Verisimilitude is not a dirty word; a logic to the fantasy world should be upheld.
• Character creations must be flexible; the ability to meld different but viable character ideas should be equally encouraged, rather than feeling pressured to focus on a couple of optimised builds
• Players should feel that they can develop a character that is both effective in combat and interesting out of combat – rather than either/or.
• The game economy must make sense and feel real; rather than being a calculated spoon-fed wealth lacking in true achievement.
• The game cannot afford for some classes to dominate at the expense of others at more powerful levels; and nor should the answer be compressing the classes into homogenized lumps of roughly equal measure.
• The game also cannot afford for rules to unmanageably bloat at higher levels with the time taken to resolve this vast array bloating as well.
• And most of all and above all else, the game must be fun! 

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[der_kluge]

I have what I want from Necromancer Games - support for "old school" style sandbox gaming.

WoTC started out being what I wanted with 3.0. Splat books were nice, and I like having options, so long as they are sane and reasonable. Then WoTC started putting out things like Warlocks, Battle Sorcerers, Book of Nine Swords, and Magic Incarnum and WoTC and I started to part ways BIG time.

I haven't bought a WoTC book in years (zero interest in purchasing 4e), and don't plan on doing so in the foreseeable future.

What do I want from WoTC? Nothing, really, that I can't already get from other publishers. In a perfect world, though, I'd get a paired down, simplified ruleset. I was hoping Pathfinder would be it, but they're taking it in a different direction than what I would have liked to seen. Still, I'll probably put my support behind that, because I like what they're doing at Paizo, and they seem to actually listen to their customers, which is more than what WoTC seems to do.

My perfect game system - has 4 classes, wizard, cleric, rogue and fighter, with options to branch out into druids, rangers, barbarians, bards, etc. It has 20 levels of spells, with spells that last "encounter duration" instead of x number of rounds. It has a realistic economy with magic items that don't cost bajillions of gold coins, and it has many of the same features (skills, feats, PrCs) that I've grown to like about 3rd edition, while at the same time taming the power level back of spellcasters and giving all the classes more options for customization. Pathfinder is gonna get me close, but it won't get me all those things.

Also, I want old school modules and campaign settings (read: something other than Robots and dinosaurs) - you know, Tolkienesque kinds of places where life is hard, and adventure is perilous - you know, the kind of game Gary Gygax made 35 years ago, before WoTC butchered it into the anime-esque weird thing that it is today.

That's the D&D I want. That's the D&D I still play. WoTC can either join me in that endeavor, or they can buzz off.

 

[Rechan]

4e is in essence what I want.

Sure, there's room for improvement. I want a more robust non-combat social encounter stuff (see: Exalted, SotC/DFRPG), Psionics as core, putting a bullet through the head of demi-human races, MORE CLASSES & MONSTERS & TRAPS, maybe Exalted's stunting mechanics...

But fundamentally, I have what I want.

Until the Dresden Files RPG comes out, that is.

 

[Cadfan]

4e is basically what I want.

Here are nit picks:

1. I want better support for big tent D&D. For example, I want the Ki power source to be openly and enthusiasticaly anime. Those who don't like it can choose not to play Ki characters. Those who cannot handle this, and insist that D&D shouldn't even have anime-based classes for those who want them, can feel free to be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

I'm cool with it if the anime tropes are D&D-ized a bit, much like everything that ends up in D&D. But they should be available.

2. Murder chromatic dragons. It shouldn't be hard, there are dragonbane swords everywhere left over from the last edition. Replace chromatics with colorful dragons. Some of these dragons may, by total coincidence, seem very much like present day chromatic dragons. That's ok. But the current system in which color wheels and useless symmetry drive design decisions is NOT COOL. If nothing else, it leads to boring dragon design and funny-lookin' dragons. Because if the artists can't make the dragons look different by varying their coloration (different solid colors is not varied coloration) they vary the dragons by adding horns that don't make sense.

Can anyone deny that the Green Dragon would look better and fit its theme better if it, just to throw out a possible example, lost all the weird horns, gained a slick, slimy skin, and markings like a poison dart frog? Totally thematic, unique, and striking.

3. Once and for all eradicate hand-jiving. Managing two held item slots when you have three items you want to use simply shouldn't be a meaningful part of the game. This is related to one of the problems with multiclassing- you want to wield a sword, a shield, and a wand, but... youv'e got three hands. You can get around this with creative use of quick draw and your minor actions, but seriously... it is aesthetically displeasing to have this be a problem. Its as if D&D tossed in Diablo's backpack inventory system, and you had to spend half your session rearranging your gear because the weird shape of your newly found Executioner's Axe totally throws off your inventory layout. Maybe not the same in terms of gameplay effect, but the same in terms of how much it bugs me.

So you see from the above list, most of my demands are pretty idiosyncratic. Overall I'm pretty happy with 4e.