D&D 5E What do you want out of crafting rules?
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
dave2008
Legend
I don't need crafting rules, but I don't mind if they are available for those who want them. I don't think it is my place to say what other tables enjoy or want to do with their RPG time.
CapnZapp
Legend
Please don't shoot me
The Green Hermit
Hero
Not even with my newly crafted exploding fire arrows?
R_J_K75
Legend
My opinion too, you want to craft stuff play Bakers and Blacksmiths. Adventurers in D&D I believe since they chose adventuring probably dont posses enough skill to make anything more than the odd item here and there, certainly not enough to make alot of money from it or even have the time to do so. I'd prefer if they were left out of the game.
A couple people mentioned the lack of WBL table in 5e being a big problem for crafting & I agree. 5e has a table where magic items cost x-y gold based on rarity & such, but that's not all that much more useful than knowing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin when it's a cost given in isolation with no magic item budget in the system math & no WBL table to peg things to
FireLance
Legend
Let me state upfront my current gaming philosophy so you know where my thoughts on crafting are coming from:
"The object of this game is to advance your first level character into as much of a superperson as you can."
I would like crafting rules to support that objective, by enabling PCs to convert resources that they do not want (e.g. gold) into resources that they want (e.g. magic items), effectively bringing back magic item wish lists and magic item shops.
I had previously done an analysis of a "typical" distribution of magic items across a 1st to 20th level campaign and obtained the following guidelines on magic items per character which I use when planning my own adventures and campaigns:
1 common consumable every level from 1 to 5.
1 uncommon consumable every level from 6 to 10.
1 rare consumable every level from 11 to 15.
1 very rare consumable every level from 16 to 19.
1 legendary consumable at level 20.
1 uncommon permanent item at level 4, and another at level 7.
1 rare permanent item at level 10 and another at level 13.
1 very rare permanent item at level 16.
1 legendary permanent item at level 19.
A separate analysis of "typical" monetary treasure (which I may have posted, but redid recently) resulted in the following guidelines:
650 gp total from levels 1 to 4.
20,400 gp total from levels 5 to 10.
109,000 gp total from levels 11 to 16.
507,000 gp total from levels 17 to 20.
If we adopt the rough convention that an uncommon magic item is worth 500 gp, a rare magic item is worth 5,000 gp, a very rare magic item is worth 50,000 gp, and a legendary magic item is worth 250,000 gp, and assuming a magic item shop or crafting rules which enable the conversion of gold to magic items, this translates into an additional uncommon magic item at level 4, four additional rare magic items between levels 5 to 10, two additional very rare magic items between levels 11 to 16, and two additional legendary magic items between levels 17 to 20. (As 250,000 gp for a legendary magic item seems an outlier in terms of the progression, maybe the value should be changed to 500,000 gp, in which case each PC would only get one additional legendary item.)
With that in mind, I'd like to see crafting rules in line with the following:
1. Crafting takes place during downtime
This is a personal preference when it comes to pacing campaigns as I'm not a fan of the PCs rushing from adventure to adventure. Crafting during downtime gives the PCs a reason to remain in their base of operations in order to get better prepared for the next adventure - and to spend gold, of course.
2. Crafting should take place in a reasonable amount of time
That said, I'm not keen on high-level PCs spending 250 days to craft a legendary magic item. I'm thinking 10 days of work should be enough, and the types of items a PC can craft should be based on level: common and uncommon at levels 1 to 4, rare at levels 5 to 10, very rare at levels 11 to 16, and legendary at level 17 to 20.
3. Special components are helpful but not necessary
Gold is enough of a gate. You don't need the PCs to go on special quests to find exotic components as well. That said, a helpful DM could choose to place items in the adventure that either count towards the gp requirement or reduce the crafting time required.
"The object of this game is to advance your first level character into as much of a superperson as you can."
I would like crafting rules to support that objective, by enabling PCs to convert resources that they do not want (e.g. gold) into resources that they want (e.g. magic items), effectively bringing back magic item wish lists and magic item shops.
I had previously done an analysis of a "typical" distribution of magic items across a 1st to 20th level campaign and obtained the following guidelines on magic items per character which I use when planning my own adventures and campaigns:
1 common consumable every level from 1 to 5.
1 uncommon consumable every level from 6 to 10.
1 rare consumable every level from 11 to 15.
1 very rare consumable every level from 16 to 19.
1 legendary consumable at level 20.
1 uncommon permanent item at level 4, and another at level 7.
1 rare permanent item at level 10 and another at level 13.
1 very rare permanent item at level 16.
1 legendary permanent item at level 19.
A separate analysis of "typical" monetary treasure (which I may have posted, but redid recently) resulted in the following guidelines:
650 gp total from levels 1 to 4.
20,400 gp total from levels 5 to 10.
109,000 gp total from levels 11 to 16.
507,000 gp total from levels 17 to 20.
If we adopt the rough convention that an uncommon magic item is worth 500 gp, a rare magic item is worth 5,000 gp, a very rare magic item is worth 50,000 gp, and a legendary magic item is worth 250,000 gp, and assuming a magic item shop or crafting rules which enable the conversion of gold to magic items, this translates into an additional uncommon magic item at level 4, four additional rare magic items between levels 5 to 10, two additional very rare magic items between levels 11 to 16, and two additional legendary magic items between levels 17 to 20. (As 250,000 gp for a legendary magic item seems an outlier in terms of the progression, maybe the value should be changed to 500,000 gp, in which case each PC would only get one additional legendary item.)
With that in mind, I'd like to see crafting rules in line with the following:
1. Crafting takes place during downtime
This is a personal preference when it comes to pacing campaigns as I'm not a fan of the PCs rushing from adventure to adventure. Crafting during downtime gives the PCs a reason to remain in their base of operations in order to get better prepared for the next adventure - and to spend gold, of course.
2. Crafting should take place in a reasonable amount of time
That said, I'm not keen on high-level PCs spending 250 days to craft a legendary magic item. I'm thinking 10 days of work should be enough, and the types of items a PC can craft should be based on level: common and uncommon at levels 1 to 4, rare at levels 5 to 10, very rare at levels 11 to 16, and legendary at level 17 to 20.
3. Special components are helpful but not necessary
Gold is enough of a gate. You don't need the PCs to go on special quests to find exotic components as well. That said, a helpful DM could choose to place items in the adventure that either count towards the gp requirement or reduce the crafting time required.
For me, the most important elements of a D&D crafting system are that it (1) adds richness and depth to the setting, and (2) plays nicely with the lore of pre-existing D&D campaign worlds, both published and homebrew (other than worlds that have setting-specific lore regarding magic items).
With regards to (1), it's important to me that the crafting system at a minimum makes sense from an economics standpoint. I'm fine with generalizations and abstraction, but I want to avoid immersion-wrecking issues such as crafting being so difficult or time-consuming that it's implausible that anyone would have bothered to make a particular item (e.g., the 5e DMG crafting rules that say that making one dose of Universal Solvent takes 27.5 person-years and 250,000 gp). Beyond that minimum for an acceptable crafting system, a good crafting system would make crafting a visible part of the game world, with (e.g.) the raw components available in a different part of the world from where production takes place, which is itself located away from where the items are in demand, thus leading to specialization in different phases of production and trade in ingredients and finished products. Such a system would add far more interactive elements to a setting than just one crafter becoming an effective hermit for weeks/months/years and needing only coinage (or universally available ingredients) as raw materials.
For mundane items, a good crafting system should produce a result that looks like crafting in the real world, such as with distributed resource gathering feeding materials into denser settlements with specialist producers. For magical items, a crafting system with similar properties could involve gathering resources in unspoiled wilderness, but then taken to a place of power (perhaps natural, like a volcano or waterfall, or requiring significant investment, like a magical laboratory) for the actual enchanting. If the required ingredients can be used for multiple types of items, they can effectively become fantastical, high-value commodities (which can then be interesting loot!). To be more player-friendly, such a system might allow skipping the rare ingredients and magical locations at a steep cost in lost efficiency.
For (2), many D&D players have preferred settings or persistent homebrew campaign worlds. To be a useful tool to the existing playerbase, any crafting system needs to be able to be dropped in to at least the most-generic of those settings without contradicting the lore. For example, 4e, by introducing crafting via residuum, did not play nice with 3e settings, and 5e, by originally only providing an outline of a crafting system and making magic items effectively not merchantable, did not play nice with 3e settings or 4e settings.
With regards to (1), it's important to me that the crafting system at a minimum makes sense from an economics standpoint. I'm fine with generalizations and abstraction, but I want to avoid immersion-wrecking issues such as crafting being so difficult or time-consuming that it's implausible that anyone would have bothered to make a particular item (e.g., the 5e DMG crafting rules that say that making one dose of Universal Solvent takes 27.5 person-years and 250,000 gp). Beyond that minimum for an acceptable crafting system, a good crafting system would make crafting a visible part of the game world, with (e.g.) the raw components available in a different part of the world from where production takes place, which is itself located away from where the items are in demand, thus leading to specialization in different phases of production and trade in ingredients and finished products. Such a system would add far more interactive elements to a setting than just one crafter becoming an effective hermit for weeks/months/years and needing only coinage (or universally available ingredients) as raw materials.
For mundane items, a good crafting system should produce a result that looks like crafting in the real world, such as with distributed resource gathering feeding materials into denser settlements with specialist producers. For magical items, a crafting system with similar properties could involve gathering resources in unspoiled wilderness, but then taken to a place of power (perhaps natural, like a volcano or waterfall, or requiring significant investment, like a magical laboratory) for the actual enchanting. If the required ingredients can be used for multiple types of items, they can effectively become fantastical, high-value commodities (which can then be interesting loot!). To be more player-friendly, such a system might allow skipping the rare ingredients and magical locations at a steep cost in lost efficiency.
For (2), many D&D players have preferred settings or persistent homebrew campaign worlds. To be a useful tool to the existing playerbase, any crafting system needs to be able to be dropped in to at least the most-generic of those settings without contradicting the lore. For example, 4e, by introducing crafting via residuum, did not play nice with 3e settings, and 5e, by originally only providing an outline of a crafting system and making magic items effectively not merchantable, did not play nice with 3e settings or 4e settings.
As a player, I want crafting to be useful to occasionally make makeshift items when away from town. Repairing armor and weapons, brewing a healing salve, etc. can be a lifesaver if stuck in the wilderness/dungeon, but normally isn't that big a deal (saving a few coins in town shouldn't be worth the time of an adventurer).
As a DM, I want a method to allow crafting magic items that doesn't replace the idiotic magic item shops of prior editions. Players should have to adventure to get the formula and the components necessary. The crafting time for the item should be significant, but not ridiculous, allowing PCs to make them during downtime (but not mass produce them).
As a DM, I want a method to allow crafting magic items that doesn't replace the idiotic magic item shops of prior editions. Players should have to adventure to get the formula and the components necessary. The crafting time for the item should be significant, but not ridiculous, allowing PCs to make them during downtime (but not mass produce them).
With respect, that's in large part because the game doesn't have rules for other things, not because making things has no place in the genre. And, since Morrus is asking bout what to include in rules, maybe this assertion is not so functional.
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