What does a DM owe his players?/ Are the rules written in stone?

[Gentlegamer]

After skimming the thread . . . I really feel sorry for those unable to experience sense of wonder when it comes to RPG magic.

 

[jmucchiello]

Someone needs to collect this thread and the other threads in the series for the archives.

To answer the OP's question, while everyone has somewhat agreed that fun is what a DM owes his players, I think part of that fun is a level playing field among the player's peers. By allowing some players to start fully equipped (and in the Paladin's case over-equipped) and some players to start woefully under-equipped, the DM did not provide a level field on which to play.

Kiefer is so story oriented that I'm surprised he allowed older characters into his world. If I were starting a game at 10th level I wouldn't let someone bring in a character from another campaign, even if I had DMed the other campaign. And I am not a story-oriented DM.

Likewise, I can't figure out why Agent_O and DethStryke didn't just make up a character with equipment and say it was from another game. Too honest I guess.

 

[Odhanan]

Okay, here's what it boils down to: are you trying to simulate realistic economic behavior, or are you trying to give your players a fun time? Apparently, from DethStryke's post, you're not going to be able to do both with him.

At the end of the day, if you have to choose between one of the other, which is more important to you, as a DM?

QFT. That's the bottom line as far as the DM is concerned. From there, the DM shouldn't be surprised with foreseeable outcomes.

But when it came right down to it, your concept of D&D fun was too different from my concept of D&D fun.

And that's one of the possible outcomes I was talking about as far as the players are concerned.

Sounds like a problem solved to me, doesn't it? The rest's bound to become an argument about the "right way of gaming", I think.

That, imo, is what D&D is all about. Epic tales, wonderous adventure, and the spirit of discovery. All too often, this rules bullcrap just gets in the way of a great story. Kudos Odhanan!

Well thanks! That works great with many a player I know, I can tell you that much!

 

[Felix]

I really feel sorry for those unable to experience sense of wonder when it comes to RPG magic.

Are you suggesting that wanting a balanced playing field prohibits a sense of wonder?

 

[Odhanan]

Are you suggesting that wanting a balanced playing field prohibits a sense of wonder?

If balance becomes one of the primary, conscious and focused goals of the game itself? Yes, I have no doubt about it.

 

[Storyteller01]

Just read the rest of the thread: disregard this entry.

 

[Felix]

Yes, I have no doubt about it.

I would turn it around; by that I mean that my destitution wouldn't be a problem with good reason. At one point in a recent campaign I was captured and tortured by Drow only to escape with my life. My loss of gear didn't bother me since there was a reason for it.

But the glaring difference between my Masterwork (if I can afford that even) Longsword and the Paladin's Holy Avenger for no other reason than the DM bids that it be so would shock me out of my suspension of disbelief.

No, it doesn't have to be a primary conscious focused goal of the game, but it should be a goal of the DM so the PCs don't have to foucs on it.

 

[Agent Oracle]

If balance becomes one of the primary, conscious and focused goals of the game itself? Yes, I have no doubt about it.

Personally, If you want a sense of wonder in D&D's magic, all it really takes is it's absence. That keeps the balance AND suprises the players when they come down to it.

/hotlinking to a post on the last page is SO much more fun than reccomending people look back

I would turn it around; by that I mean that my destitution wouldn't be a problem with good reason. At one point in a recent campaign I was captured and tortured by Drow only to escape with my life. My loss of gear didn't bother me since there was a reason for it.

QFT.

Such great discussion. though this really should end soon,

Mods? could we just lock & bundle all these threads, and, maybe, preserve them over in the archives? I know I'm not the OP, but I think that he and I have been at each other's throats enough. It's time to walk away.

 

[Odhanan]

No, it doesn't have to be a primary conscious focused goal of the game, but it should be a goal of the DM so the PCs don't have to foucs on it.

Agreed. That's what I meant by "primary, conscious, focused goal" above.

That's indeed an issue to care about before the game as to not have to care about it much during the game. Stuff like one PC being a prisoner and having no equipment whatsoever, being rescued by other PCs with a full gear, is a gross mistake if handled without preparation.

Maybe the PC was a prisoner from mind flayers and developped from the multiple tortures he had to live through some psychic powers he doesn't control? I would use that as a DM to give the PC the spotlight from time to time, so that s/he doesn't stay in the back fearing for his/her life the whole time.

Imagine the PCs fighting a bunch of drow, with the poor PC hiding behind a wall waiting for the fight to be over, when the DM asks the player "by the way, which drow are you looking at as you are doing this?" "(PC) Er.. this one" "(DM) Ok. You see that, as you look at him, the drow looks at you while he swings his scimetar at the same time. This is an unusual move from such a seasoned fighter, you gather, but as you're telling yourself this, you see his facial expression change to complete terror. His head explodes in a split second, projecting blood and brain stuff everywhere across the room. His body falls to the ground with a deaf "floosh", like a puppet which strings have just been severed. You're not totally sure what actually caused this, but you realize it actually felt good to you. (pause) Okay Barntar, this is your turn now, what do you do?".

 

[Felix]

Head exploding scimitar wielding drow are always cause for ovation.

And with that kind of backstory, or something as neat, destitution can be well done and fun. But it does need to be well done to be fun.