What does GNS mean?

[hong]

ENWurld???

Someone should so start a Hackmaster fan site called EN Wurld. It would rock.

 

[diaglo]

Someone should so start a Hackmaster fan site called EN Wurld. It would rock.

maybe we could get Russ to sponsor it like he does other fan sites.

mang, seeing Sonofapreacherman and now thinking about GaryJackson'sGhost you are giving me flashbacks... next thing you know

Bugaboo will be here.

 

[Jim Hague]

I agree that this is a problem. That was my experience the first time I tried to engage in debate about it. But that doesn't take away from the fact that
(a) it's hard to understand; and
(b) it is, for all its warts, the only properly constructed theoretical framework for discussing RPGs

I mentioned the idea of underlying assumptions: I find one of the ways that the model is most likely to provoke the cross-purpose talk is if your idea about RPGs centres on the specialness of the GM's role.

Problems:

a)Difficult to understand usually means it's not well-constructed; if the author can't communicate their ideas effectively, except to a highly-specialized audience, they need to rethink their presentation.

b)Did you miss GMS' other framework offered earlier in the thread? Saying that Ron Edwards' GNS model is the only model smacks of not just elitism, but a lack of willingness on the part of its adherents to even consider alternatives.

 

[Psion]

(b) it is, for all its warts, the only properly constructed theoretical framework for discussing RPGs

No, not really.

Various books on GMing -- some of which Ron cites as inspiration -- analyze certain aspects of gaming.

And GDS as originally conceived, for my money, is much more functional than GNS. I see too much hunting for some underlying reality in Ron's model, when the reality is that breaking down people into three categories is really just a convenient abstraction, not a hard-and-fast rule. It also seems to me that the theories there often obsess on the aphids on the bark of the trees to realize that they are in a forest.

 

[diaglo]

to further prove your point of minutae

It also seems to me that the theories there often obsess on the aphids on the bark of the trees to realize that they are in a forest.

aphids don't normally hang out on bark.

they like stems that aren't woody. but green still...

 

[Nisarg]

What would you guys suggest as an alternative to "The Forge"?

i.e A website that discusses game theory and design in an intelligent manner.

Thank You

Rayston

The real alternative is the free market. That's where game design theory really applies.
You can chat about RPG design on a website till your tongue turns blue, but its all mental chatter.
The test of whether you're actually any good at RPG design comes if you can actually sell your RPG on the free market.

And in that sense, Enworld, or even RPGnet, would be better alternatives than the Forge, because here we discuss RPGs that have actually succeeded in the free market, and conversations can and do inevitably end up discussing the design elements of said game.

Nisarg

 

[mmadsen]

According to Ron Edward's own GNS article:

Much torment has arisen from people perceiving GNS as a labelling device. Used properly, the terms apply only to decisions, not to whole persons nor to whole games.​

I disagree with his notion that one's gaming can't be "all three" -- he holds that at any point, one of those three facets dominates, and the dominant facet is what matters.

 

[Sejs]

Ow, my brain.

Much torment has arisen from people perceiving GNS as a labelling device. Used properly, the terms apply only to decisions, not to whole persons nor to whole games.

Except that applying terms in order to identify and define something is labeling. And yeah, the idea that the concepts are wholly or in part exclusive from one another is hogwash. At least in theory, the more that multiple subsets are used in successful tandem in a game, the more satisfying an experience it would be.

 

[GMSkarka]

I think the Forge is a great achievement considering the meagre or non-existent reward it provides people like Ron Edwards.

I'd hardly call name recognition, and a website full of loyal (and in some cases zealous) followers a "meagre or non-existent reward."

I guess it hasn't occurred to most of the people there that Ron has, rather neatly, created a pre-existing audience for anything he releases through Adept Press. The Forge has, according to the main forum page, 3801 registered users. Figure about a third of those are hardcore. Not a bad sales number...

 

[Larcen]

i understand stereotyping... so i don't like it.

Right. We get enough stereotyping in-game with the concept of classes.

Also, I would embrace this whole G/N/S thing if more people could agree on what it all actually means. From reading this thread, it looks like they don't.