What does the fighter need...

What would give to the fighter?

  • More skill/skill points

    Votes: 60 30.2%
  • Something flavorful but low-key

    Votes: 20 10.1%
  • Some sort of boost to combat ability

    Votes: 27 13.6%
  • Maneuver/stance progression

    Votes: 23 11.6%
  • None of the above. It's fine as is.

    Votes: 69 34.7%

Another vote for more skill points and a couple more skills.

I'd give Fighter Light Armor Proficiency at 1st level and his choice between Medium Armor Proficiency and some other feat (like, maybe something that gives him a +1 dodge bonus to AC -- which increases with level -- and counts as Dodge for feat requirements).

At 3rd level, if he chose Medium Armor Proficiency at 1st level, he gains Heavy Armor Proficiency (at about the level a character can actually afford a heavy armor). If he chose the other benefit, he advances in that direction.

In other words, I'd give the Fighter more versatility, choosing from being the heavy-armored tank he is now, the light armored archer or duelist, the fast-riding horseman, etc.
 

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I would go with more skill points, and a wider range of skills. (In fact, perhaps it might be a good idea to give all classes more skills and tie them to a character's background. So, a fighter of noble origin might have Knowledge, Nobility as a class skill and perhaps Diplomacy. Or a cleric might have Sense Motive and Spot as additional skills -- great for a character who is a bit of a detective.) Perhaps DMs using such an option would encourage players to better define their characters, adding to more role playing possibilities.

I have seen a few fighter types get bored when the game focuses on such elements as diplomacy or investigation. I think what is mostly needed is to make sure that the players of fighters and other characters feel that their characters are useful in different situations. No player wants to feel that his or her character is useless for large amounts of time in a game. (That was one of the problems playing a 1st level wizard in 1st Edition AD&D: One spell, and you are pretty much done unless you are needed because you know some obscure language.)
 

I really do think the fighter is lackluster, and I don't mean injust flavor. When comparing a fighter 4/cleric 4 versus a fighter 8, the fighter 8 just seems to come out on the short end. Loss of two BAB, two feats and about 8 HP for four levels of divine caster, turning, and probably free weapon focus seems like too good a deal to pass up.

I think longer feat chains only good for fighters would make it less appealing, and PHII provided some of that. They still seem to lack something. This was even more true in AD&D when compared against high level casters and I gave them a damage bonus equal to level to try and make up for it.

I also think they should get some more class skills. Listen and Spot to start with since most (NPC) fighters end up as guards. Maybe Sence Motive. Tumble should also be a fighter class skill. It's so useful in combat, I don't see why any fighter school wouldn't be teaching it to some exetent. Avoiding AoO seems like a primary need for the fighter.
 

Ourph said:
Fighters should get the Leadership feat for free at 10th level and gain a +1 bonus to their Leadership score at 11th, 13th, 17th and 19th level. IMO.

I like this. I'd change it though to getting a leadership feat at 6th, 12th and 18th. They could get a +1 to Chr as well for purposes of their leadership as well on top of the +1 to any stat every 4 levels. This would allow him to get upto 3 good cohorts or warbands.
 

Ive seen the fighter played stupidly resulting in almost a TPK ... but I've seen them played more often to devastating effect, so personally I don't think they need any substantial boost in power. With the sheer # of feats available and a player with a decent handle on the complexities of combat, you can fine tune your fighter to a razor sharp edge.

The farthest I would go is an additional 1 or 2 skill points per level.
 

"Some sort of boost to combat ability".

Specifically, grab a copy of the Book of Iron Might from Malhavoc Press - written by Wizards of the Coast developer Mike Mearls, who also wrote Iron Heroes and developed the Tome of Battle - and make use of the stunts challenges found in that book.

The end result will be a fighter who can do things like batter down his opponent's defences over a number of rounds before finishing him off, rather than stand there slugging it out, or temporarily take out a creature's gaze attack by striking at its eyes, or even more pulpy things like push a crumbling column down on multiple foes - action which would fit very well with Eberron.

The beauty of the Book of Iron Might system is that it expands the options available to all characters in a flavourful way, and does so with a system of well-balanced tradeoffs which can be customised on the fly. If, for instance, the aforementioned column-toppling stunt was beyond the normal abilities of our muscular barbarian warrior, he might push himself past his limits to do it and strain some muscles (temporary Strength damage) in the process.

There's also some interesting feats, including some tactical "battlemind" feats and others which enable wuxia-inspired action, like standing on air. They're not a part of the stunts and challenges system, though, so if they don't suit you you won't have to use them.

Edited to add: The essential part of the stunts and challenges system is that most challenges can be accomplished with an attack roll, physical ability check, or skill check involving a fighter's (and other warrior classes') class skills, like Jump or Climb.

That last matters more if you use class skills, which I personally recommend against.
 
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Endur,

I prefer if they just had a BFG instead. ;)


Claudio,

What you don't think my idea for a bigger sword has merit? ;)
 

EyeontheMountain said:
4. Less flying/invisibility on the side of the enemies. WOTC gave spellcasters 100 ways to avoid the poor fighter, but the fighter 0 ways to counter them.

I think is an important point, the fighter is way too dependent on all items for high level combats, not just for the raw bonuses, but in dealing with magics of all kinds of types. He should have nonmagical ways of at least having a chance agaisnt such magics.

For example:

Battle Senses (EX): A 10th level fighter gains a wariness of invisible opponents and ambushes. He gains blindsense of 15 feet.

Bascially things that let a fighter deal with the stable of high level invisible casters, not as good as a spell, but something he has to work with.

The fighter also needs high level abilities, as others have said. And while high level feats are a good answer, high level feat chains are not.

Weapon Supremacy is a cool new PHB II feat, but what about the fighter who didn't just go weapon focus, spec, weapon supremacy? What about the fighter who took a wide range of feats. A fighter shouldn't have to climb a lot of feat chains to get worthwhile abilities, they should get high level feats that they can get just because they are high level fighters.
 


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