What does Videogamey mean to you?

[TwinBahamut]

Leveling is perhaps the worst videogamism of all, especially when you figure into how it determines what sort of foes you'll face and how powerful your abilities will be - even abilities not related to what you've been recently doing. How decapitating orcs makes you better at Knowledge of the Planes, I'll never know. However, like healing surges, it works overall for the D&D game and its an easy overlooked "sin".

I don't want to look like I am insulting your post (like some others in this thread, I appreciate it when people elaborate on what they mean rather than hide behind the term "videogamey"), but this part here is one of the reasons that I have a hard time interpreting the term "videogamey" as anything other than merely "a mechanical element of D&D that I don't like".

Levelling is a D&Dism. Absolutely every last videogame that uses a leveling mechanic (of which there are a great many) has either borrowed it either directly or indirectly from D&D. The earliest videogames that used leveling mechanics were either D&D licensed products or were clearly and heavily inspired by D&D. Of course, there are a great many videogames that don't have anything even resembling a leveling system (the SaGa series of RPGs is a fun example). What is more, the particular thing you complain about, getting better at Knowledge of the Planes by killing lots of orcs, is generally more true of D&D than the vast majority of videogames (even in the archetypical MMORPG and total D&D rip-off Everquest this is not true).

While your complaint is undeniably valid, it is rather difficult to objectively link it to videogames. It is clearly impossible to examine the leveling system as an influence of videogames upon D&D. But most importantly, it is not the kind of thing that someone would understand to be what you mean when you say "videogamey".

Again, I don't really have a problem with what you are saying as a whole, but this paragraph just struck me as an example of why I find it basically impossible to have a reasonable and useful discussion about why something might seem "videogamey".

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think this thread shows why videogamey is such a bad shorthand... People have very different interpretations of what it means. I has about value as saying "I don't like it", but... It isn't even that! Some people even use it as a compliment!

For example, people that actually like videogames, started with them actually, and then came to D&D! Wow, for a game that's played without 3D Graphics, sound effects, and you have to roll dice and write on paper and read a lot of rules, this is a lot of fun!

 

[UniversalMonster]

I think it's just a slur that leaves enough unsaid that it squeaks by moderation.

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

Highly structured
Restrictive
(and these days) Pretty Graphics

Is what the term suggests to me.

Does not necessarily mean all of them are bad.

 

[Budalic]

Videogamey is a new term intended to insult new games. But mutual influence between CRPGs and P&P rpgs should be expected. The advanced classes from Mass Effect (or evolving class powers from ME 2) is obviously inspired by prestige classes from D&D 3E. And roles in D&D 4E are obviously inspired by WoW.

It should be still noted that roles in WoW were inspired by player behaviour in previous editions of D&D - all crpgs draw root from P&P Rpgs.

EDIT: made it little clearer to read

 

[Neonchameleon]

In the novelesque vs. videogamey dichotomy with respect to magic, in principle one can trying turning something like 4E into something more "low magic" by doing something like:

- make the magic items and treasure a lot more rare, and strip out the magic enhancement bonuses from magic weapons (ie. +1, +2, etc ...)
- redo the wizard, sorcerer, etc ... spellcasting classes such that they only have dailies, with Vancian style spell slots (as in older editions).

In order to preserve the 4E math scaling up by the levels, just use +level in place of the to-hit modifiers (ie. +level/2 + magic enhancement + primary stat adjustment) for combat powers. (Some of the monster hit points will have to be adjusted accordingly).

That's really not how I'd do it. Vancian != low magic.

Instead:
1: No player may play a wizard, an invoker, a druid, a shaman, or a sorceror. (Warlocks can fit into relatively low magic world. Charisma Paladins and Swordmages to be determined on a case by case basis. And probably not most of the PHBIII classes). Multiclass feats are legal into these classes (or not for really low magic).
2: No implement based at wills for Bards or Clerics, and Bards or Clerics may only have a maximum of one implement based encounter attack power. Thunderborn Barbarians on a case by case basis.
3: Scaling as in DMG 3, magic items as rare.

 

[AllisterH]

Strict limits on magic might be one. Novelesque magic tends to be less showy and much harder to use, its effects more devastating, and typically its in the hands of the bad guys. Videogamey magic is flashy, easy to use, balanced against other types of attacks (or tries to be) and available to good-guys as well. The comparison would be in a Conan novel, only evil and vile magicians ever use magic, vs. Final Fantasy, were all the heroes can (and do) learn magic.

.

But isn't this more of an example of the divide between new and older fantasy fiction.

In older fiction, the protoganists pretty much never wielded magic. At best, they knew a few tricks but weren't "real" magicians.

Nowadays, fantasy fiction you are indeed more likely to find the protoganist to be a capable magician.

 

[DaveyJones]

video gaming has changed.

in pre save game era it meant you just had to learn a pattern or technique to "win"

with the ability to save game or enter passcodes to bypass whole timesinks i believe the video gamey means a slightly different means of "winning"

when aplied to rpgs. for me videogamey means finding a loop hole in the rules to play in godmode. with no chance of getting your pc killed. and reaping all the bonus. then bragging about your high score on the internet. let them tell you about their 100th lvl character with his +20 weapon of power.

 

[AllisterH]

Healing SurgesI I must admit I'm surprised that people consider videogamey.

Indeed, I don't know of a videogame that actually HAS healing surges.

Regeneration- yep, that's common in videogames and Hit points + healing potions is of course the most common videogame type of tracking (and that's pulled from D&D).

I've always seen Healing Surges as "ACTION movie" staples. The "John Mcclane" style where the hero gets beaten up in one scene, but about 5 minutes later, he's as right as rain to do another incredible action stunt/encounter but at the end of day, he has no more in the tank.

If anything, I've seen this closer to actual novel characters like Conan who in his books does the sme things whereas the standard videogame method of "hitpoint recovered via healing items/potions you recover from barrels and you can be an Energizer bunny as long as you have that" I thought was a pure D&Dism that was ripped off.

Similarly, the encounter style system I've always seen more along the lines of action movies and manga where the character pulls off a cool move but doesn't use it every freaking time.

 

[Bluenose]

But isn't this more of an example of the divide between new and older fantasy fiction.

In older fiction, the protoganists pretty much never wielded magic. At best, they knew a few tricks but weren't "real" magicians.

Nowadays, fantasy fiction you are indeed more likely to find the protoganist to be a capable magician.

The short stories of de Camp and Pratt that deal with Harold Shea date from 1940, and the protagonist is certainly using magic. They're compiled as the Incomplete Enchanter, or variants thereof. I can't come up with any from earlier in the 20th century, but I can pick out several figures from older legends that use magic - norse sagas have a seection, and many celtic tales have magic-using heroes.